AFCI upgrade cost for new construction

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Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
I was talking to a fellow resi contractor and long time friend the other day, and he is saying that (on the average) say 2000 to 2800 ft homes, he figures $1200 (over) for labor and materials needed to include AFCI protection to meet 08 NEC. This includes the cost of converting from MW branch cir home runs to single cir home runs since they have had so much trouble with 2pole AFCI brkrs.

Our town back in May adopted the 08 code PRIOR to the state adopting it. I know this is vague saying (average) cost, but is this what other resi contractors are experiencing in upgrade cost?

So in summary he is charging $3.50/ft plus $1200 upgrade for AFCI

I think his typical house has 15 cans, 4 or 5 phone and cable drops, and a fan in every room.
 

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
Mule said:
I was talking to a fellow resi contractor and long time friend the other day, and he is saying that (on the average) say 2000 to 2800 ft homes, he figures $1200 (over) for labor and materials needed to include AFCI protection to meet 08 NEC. This includes the cost of converting from MW branch cir home runs to single cir home runs since they have had so much trouble with 2pole AFCI brkrs.

Our town back in May adopted the 08 code PRIOR to the state adopting it. I know this is vague saying (average) cost, but is this what other resi contractors are experiencing in upgrade cost?

So in summary he is charging $3.50/ft plus $1200 upgrade for AFCI

I think his typical house has 15 cans, 4 or 5 phone and cable drops, and a fan in every room.
Is the 3.50/ft for new construction ?
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
He should really find out what his exact costs are instead of guessing a square foot cost.

The difference in what I charge between AFCI and non-AFCI circuits is around $50. In the average house I'd say we'll use 12 more AFCI circuit breakers on '08 NEC, so that's $600.
 

jbfan74

Senior Member
Location
Newnan Ga
brantmacga said:
He should really find out what his exact costs are instead of guessing a square foot cost.

The difference in what I charge between AFCI and non-AFCI circuits is around $50. In the average house I'd say we'll use 12 more AFCI circuit breakers on '08 NEC, so that's $600.


brant: You know Ga recommended to remove the arcfault requirments in the 08 code, and leave in place the 05 requirments.

http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/codealerts/20080730ga.cfm
 
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Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Yes thats $3.50 for new construction and $1200 upcharge for AFCI. I'm confident he knows exactly what his cost are, as he has two crews and does resi construction on a daily basis, I think he just states it in a way that the builders can relate to....
 

ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
Mule said:
I was talking to a fellow resi contractor and long time friend the other day, and he is saying that (on the average) say 2000 to 2800 ft homes, he figures $1200 (over) for labor and materials needed to include AFCI protection to meet 08 NEC. This includes the cost of converting from MW branch cir home runs to single cir home runs since they have had so much trouble with 2pole AFCI brkrs.

Our town back in May adopted the 08 code PRIOR to the state adopting it. I know this is vague saying (average) cost, but is this what other resi contractors are experiencing in upgrade cost?

So in summary he is charging $3.50/ft plus $1200 upgrade for AFCI

I think his typical house has 15 cans, 4 or 5 phone and cable drops, and a fan in every room.

We still need to add the costs of: TR receptacles, WR GFCI's, intersystem grounding bus...what else did I miss?
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
jbfan74 said:
brant: You know Ga recommended to remove the arcfault requirments in the 08 code, and leave in place the 05 requirments.

http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/codealerts/20080730ga.cfm

WOW!

Looks like the HBA is going to get their way. I have a copy of the proposed amendments that was sent to me by a member of the GA code advisory board, which says the only changes were to delete the requirement of GFCI's on dedicated appliance circuits in basements, garages; delete TR recep requirement, and one other change involving the POCO's.

This comes as quite a shock.

Especially this part from the document:
The fourth amendment came from a motion on SCAC member Thomas Carty, Building Official for Peachtree City, GA and current President of the Georgia Building officials Association. It should be noted that Mr. Carty is one of the more electrically knowledgeable people on SCAC. It appeared the main issues concerned the inability of Georgia electrical contractors and their people to perform troubleshooting procedures where AFCI protected devices trip for apparently unknown and unfound reasons, and the cost of the devices which was as always greatly inflated on estimates given by a home builder association?s representative. The vote on this amendment was 12-5 in favor.

I don't think we should be removing codes because contractors can't figure out how to properly install a circuit; the safety device is doing its job, and apparently that upsets people when it identifies a problem they can't fix.

I'm extremely dissapointed in how this went down. I wish I'd seen this before Aug. 24th, as it says that's when the final vote was to take place. I'm going to try and reach my contact on the board to get more information.

Thanks for the link jbfan.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Mule said:
Yes thats $3.50 for new construction and $1200 upcharge for AFCI. I'm confident he knows exactly what his cost are, as he has two crews and does resi construction on a daily basis, I think he just states it in a way that the builders can relate to....

If you say so I'm not going to doubt you, but when I first started I priced that way (because all the EC's here do it; that's what I was taught) and it was extremely difficult to figure out exact costs and an appropriate selling price.
 
brantmacga said:
He should really find out what his exact costs are instead of guessing a square foot cost.

The difference in what I charge between AFCI and non-AFCI circuits is around $50. In the average house I'd say we'll use 12 more AFCI circuit breakers on '08 NEC, so that's $600.
It's $600 to install them, and another $600 in labor to trouble shoot the nuisance tripping...
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
brantmacga said:
If you say so I'm not going to doubt you, but when I first started I priced that way (because all the EC's here do it; that's what I was taught) and it was extremely difficult to figure out exact costs and an appropriate selling price.

It's very obvious by all the post I've read on this topic, that folks have a lot of heart burn with sq/ft pricing, and I understand fully,well "sorta".

Looks like to me, if all you do is residential new construction, and you have a base sq/ft price for the mininum nec requirements for a average spec house, that shouldn't be a bad thing. Then have adds for this and that or maybe a strange floor plan, or ttl electric, or whatever......... I can understand a custom, or I can understand all the add's or upgrades from minumun requirements, but looks like it would be pretty repetive work in nature and not spending the labor to estimate down to the nat's butt each spec house one would offset added cost for lets say...home runs being 40ft longer than the last house for example. The smaller EC's should have a pretty good understanding if they are making money or not.....

Am I missing something?....be easy on me...Im just trying to understand
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
If you're doing the same floorplan over again, sure you could break it down by the sq. ft; but for the original estimate i wouldn't use sq. ft. pricing.

I'm just speaking as someone that did it and lost money doing so. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on it until I did an actual take-off and figured exact costs. Once you get your pricing system in place its very easy to use and keep updated. Take-offs only take a few minutes on the average house.

I have broken down my take-off estimate into a square foot price and while the cost of 120V devices and fixture install usually stays about the same, the cost of the appliances and service is always different; and those are the most costly things in the house.

Since changing my format I'd never go back to doing sq. ft. pricing. I promise its worth your time to figure your actual costs.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Mule said:
What appliances are you furnishing?

none; i'm speaking of the wiring for them: hvac, cooking equip, w/h, dryer, etc. . . .

On some houses they're all within 30' or so of the panel. On some they're over 80' or so away. Pretty big cost difference. I price that stuff individually as it is the most costly. All switches, receps, lights, etc. . have an unit price that is the same on each house, but varies on ceiling heights & non-standard installs.
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
brantmacga said:
none; i'm speaking of the wiring for them: hvac, cooking equip, w/h, dryer, etc. . . .

On some houses they're all within 30' or so of the panel. On some they're over 80' or so away. Pretty big cost difference. I price that stuff individually as it is the most costly. All switches, receps, lights, etc. . have an unit price that is the same on each house, but varies on ceiling heights & non-standard installs.

OK...I understand how those home run cir/ft would make a difference....but I would also say that 99.9% of the homes built with in this town are gas furnace, electric oven, micro/vent, fridge, electric dryer, disposal, DW, and the cooktops wil have both gas and electric to them. Most our homes have three car garages, making the home runs even longer.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
brantmacga said:
All switches, receps, lights, etc. . have an unit price that is the same on each house, but varies on ceiling heights & non-standard installs.

And if you have enough solder and sectional boxes that day. :D
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
jmsbrush said:
What is the intersystem grounding bus ans what is wr gfci?

New 2008 requirements.

Intersystem grounding bus is so all the communication utilities can connect their ground wires to a common, easily accessible point. 250.94

The "WR" is "weather resistant," and it's a new requirement that outlets installed in wet locations be of the "WR" type. 406.8(B)
 

ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
jmsbrush said:
What is the intersystem grounding bus ans what is wr gfci?

See definitions section for "Intersystem Bonding Termination" & (250.94) ..it's basically a three terminal brass bus that attaches outside of a house so the cable, phone, satellite can bond to.

The WR is the weather resistant GFCI now required under in-use covers. It's ironic that a GFCI is normally installed in wet locations but now they require it to be "WR" if located in wet locations (406.8 (B) (1). I try to locate it on the inside wall and feed the WP box outside from it, if the HO doesn't object.
 
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