Abandoned range circuit can i use it for the dryer?

Status
Not open for further replies.

zappy

Senior Member
Location
CA.
Customer has a range circuit he isn't using and since his panel is full i was just going to use the existing 50amp 2 pole breaker and wire for the dryer.Is this ok to put a 30amp dryer outlet on a 50amp breaker?Thank you for your help.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
zappy said:
Is this ok to put a 30amp dryer outlet on a 50amp breaker?
No. The receptacle is part of the circuit rating. You'll have oversized conductors, which is okay, but the breaker must be sized according to the circuit's new rating.

As the dog says, "Woof, woof!" (Translation: swap out the 50a breaker for a 30a, and you'll be good to go."
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
zappy said:
Is this ok to put a 30amp dryer outlet on a 50amp breaker?

No, that is an NEC violation for the receptacle 210.21(B)(1)

It also likely violates 422.11(A) and / or 110.3(B) for supplying the 30 amp rated dryer with a 50 amp rated circuit.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
ptonsparky said:
I used a 50 amp range circuit for a duplex recept the other day. Made it all legal on each end with pigtails/CB and even found an EG back in the jacket. No VD on that circuit!

Been there, I reused an existing 6/3 MC for one 30 amp 120 volt circuit and one 20 amp 120 volt circuit. Of course we installed the correct breakers. :)
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
zappy said:
Customer has a range circuit he isn't using and since his panel is full i was just going to use the existing 50amp 2 pole breaker and wire for the dryer.Is this ok to put a 30amp dryer outlet on a 50amp breaker?Thank you for your help.


Existing 4 wire circuit?
 

monkey

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
hillbilly1 said:
The 4-wire requirement has been around for quite a while, can't remember what year it changed, but it has been at least 12-15 years.

It changed in 96. I was wondering the same thing, if it was 3 wire or 4 wire. It is legal to reuse a 3 wire, but I wonder if there is any problem with re using a 3 wire in the OP's situation, as it is not being used for it's original purpose?
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I didn't see a clear and complete answer here yet. So let me try. Swap out the 50 amp breaker for a 30 amp breaker AND swap out the 50 amp range receptacle for a 30 amp dryer receptacle. Do both, and you will be OK.

Does that work for everybody? ;)
 

frizbeedog

Senior Member
Location
Oregon
charlie b said:
I didn't see a clear and complete answer here yet. So let me try. Swap out the 50 amp breaker for a 30 amp breaker AND swap out the 50 amp range receptacle for a 30 amp dryer receptacle. Do both, and you will be OK.

Does that work for everybody? ;)

Except for the 3 or 4 wire question, I thought everyone's answers were clear.

Only zappy can help us now.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
monkey said:
It changed in 96. I was wondering the same thing, if it was 3 wire or 4 wire. It is legal to reuse a 3 wire, but I wonder if there is any problem with re using a 3 wire in the OP's situation, as it is not being used for it's original purpose?
It would be my opinion that changing from a 50 amp circuit to a 30 amp circuit created a new circuit and 4 wire cable would be required.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
don_resqcapt19 said:
It would be my opinion that changing from a 50 amp circuit to a 30 amp circuit created a new circuit and 4 wire cable would be required.
I disagree. It's not a new installation. It's at most a re-assignment.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
charlie b said:
I didn't see a clear and complete answer here yet.
Mine wasn't?

LarryFine said:
No. The receptacle is part of the circuit rating. You'll have oversized conductors, which is okay, but the breaker must be sized according to the circuit's new rating.

As the dog says, "Woof, woof!" (Translation: swap out the 50a breaker for a 30a, and you'll be good to go."
 

zappy

Senior Member
Location
CA.
Not sure if it's a 3 or 4 wire?

Not sure if it's a 3 or 4 wire?

just went to give a estimate.That's a good question.If it's a 3 wire are you saying i can't use it?:confused: I thought if it's existing i could just using it for a different appliance.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
zappy said:
just went to give a estimate.That's a good question.If it's a 3 wire are you saying i can't use it?:confused: I thought if it's existing i could just using it for a different appliance.

I agree with Don, once you change the breaker and the receptacle it is no longer an existing circuit. But ultimately that would be up to the inspector.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
iwire said:
I agree with Don, once you change the breaker and the receptacle it is no longer an existing circuit. But ultimately that would be up to the inspector.
What if, say, when a house was built over 12 years ago, a gas dryer was installed, but a 3-condcutor SE cable was run just in case it was ever desired to replace the gas dryer with an electric one?

Are you saying that the existing cable could not now be used as planned for, because a receptacle and breaker had not been installed when the house was new, although compliant at the time?

To me, existing means existing; not existing and used at its maximum ampacity, and it suddenly doesn't qualify because we wish to use it at a lower ampacity now. Esisting means it's there now.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
To me, existing means existing; not existing and used at its maximum ampacity, and it suddenly doesn't qualify because we wish to use it at a lower ampacity now. Esisting means it's there now.

How did you decide that only the cable has to be existing?

If you reuse an existing NM that was installed before GFCIs where required to supply a new receptacle in the bath room are you not required to provide GFCI protection?

The breaker is new, the receptacle is new, the appliance is new, the use of the circuit is new.

IMO the inspector would be well within their authority to call it a new installation ..... or they might also let it slide. :smile:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top