Panel Breaker Intermittent

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czars

Czars
Location
West Melbourne, FL
Occupation
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor
Awhile back I had a client who was complaining about a blinking hall light and momentary loss of power at his TV. I found the 1P-15A breaker in his ITE panel that protected the circuit. I could actually hear an arcing sound. I turned the breaker off and the sound went away. The breaker buss connection was discolored, showed signs of arcing and the buss connection contacts were not very strong. The buss looked pitted, so I cleaned it up with sandpaper and put anti-ox on it and installed a new Siemens breaker. All seemed OK.

A week later the client called with the same complaints. This time the new breaker sounded like it was arcing and showed fluctuating voltage on my analog meter. Turned the breaker off and the arcing sound stopped. I thought it might have been a bad breaker, so I replaced it again. All seemed OK.

Yesterday the client called again with the same symptoms. He heard arcing sounds and his hall light was blinking. I had him shut the breaker off and when he did the arcing sound stopped and of course the hall light went out.

I have to go look at it again today. The panel is full, but right now I plan to move the circuit with problems to an empty tandem breaker. Anyone have any ideas?
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Is using sandpaper and applying de-ox on the busbar a listed 'repair' according to the manufacturer?

If the busbars is burned and pitted, I'd say replace the panel.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
there could be a bad connection somewhere in the circuit that caused problems w/ the orignal circuit breaker; now w/ the pitting in the bus, you could have connection problems at the new breaker itself also.

you may just need to disassemble the circuit and check connections everywhere. maybe a loose screw on a hot somewhere.



I agree w/ 480 on replacement also. Maybe you can replace just the interior.

480, noticing your signature link, here's another one you may like. H.A.L.E.
 

SiddMartin

Senior Member
Location
PA
You should connect the load to another breaker and see if you still have a problem. IMO I would not sand paper a bus bar to try and fix pitting, and would not use that space again, use a tandem (if applicable) or replace the panel.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
SiddMartin said:
You should connect the load to another breaker and see if you still have a problem. IMO I would not sand paper a bus bar to try and fix pitting, and would not use that space again, use a tandem (if applicable) or replace the panel.

I still think it's something on the circuit that created the problem to begin with. Connecting to another CB may not show the problem immediately, but I'm afraid it will reappear unless the OP fully checks this circuit.
 
480sparky said:
Is using sandpaper and applying de-ox on the busbar a listed 'repair' according to the manufacturer?

If the busbars is burned and pitted, I'd say replace the panel.

Didn't stop to wonder what happens to the sanded metal particles?:cool: It is a myth that you can blow it out wioth compressed air, you just embedd it in the insulation even harder. Results in some beutiful tracking faults years form now and pictures on a forum like this.

I agree that the gut should have been replaced.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I think part of the problem is that, once the bus stab is burned that much, it heats up with normal current to the point that it causes the breaker contact spring to lose it's temper.

No, it doesn't get abgry, but the tension weakens, creating more heat, and it snowballs, not entirely dissimilar to the way small-gauge aluminum conductors' terminations loosen over time.


brantmacga said:
480, noticing your signature link, here's another one you may like. H.A.L.E.
Even MORE fun with Legos:

http://fineelectricco.com/LegoChurch1.jpg

http://fineelectricco.com/LegoChurch2.jpg

http://fineelectricco.com/LegoChurch3.jpg

http://fineelectricco.com/LegoChurch4.jpg
 

czars

Czars
Location
West Melbourne, FL
Occupation
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor
Panel Breaker Intermittent

Thanks for the response guys. I installed a tandem breaker in another slot today and moved the circuit conductor off the "bad breaker and all appears fine. I marked the slot as "DO NOT USE". I will follow up on the idea of checking all connections down the line to make sure they are OK.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
czars said:
I will follow up on the idea of checking all connections down the line to make sure they are OK.

I would do that with a quickness; I think whatever caused that problem w/ the orig CB could still be in the circuit wiring. Maybe it was overloaded at some point and no longer is? I'd recommend to the customer that they have you inspect the entire circuit.
 
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