upgrade to 400A service

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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
On another forum, someone asked about ugrading his electric service from 100A to 400A to accomodate an electric instantaneous water heater.

I opined that this was an expenseive upgrade, probably $5k or so.

Another poster claimed this was more like $2500. he also claimed the utility would only charge $75 for such an upgrade.

Comments?
 

emahler

Senior Member
around these parts it would actually be a 320A service (unless you wanted to put in a CT cabinet)

Min $5000, especially with the 10 hrs of phone time that will be required to deal with the local POCO.

Local POCO's minimum charge for a D&R is $212. If they have to upgrade the lateral, it will be more than $212.
 

bkludecke

Senior Member
Location
Big Bear Lake, CA
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
In these parts, a 320 service is about $1000.00 add another $1000.00 for other parts and since I can't see the job from here add $2000.00 for labor & etc. POCO here doesn't charge for upgrades. When I 1st read this thread I thought $5k sounded high but now it's looking more reasonable. Overhead? Underground?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
emahler said:
around these parts it would actually be a 320A service (unless you wanted to put in a CT cabinet).

A class 320 socket is a 400 amp service.

Think about it.

A class 320 is socket is rated 320 continuous or 400 non continuous.

What are the standard ratings for one 400 or two 200 amp panels combined? ;)

If you where to have a meter socket rated 400 amp continuous you would need a 500 amp panel to take advantage of it.
 

emahler

Senior Member
iwire said:
A class 320 socket is a 400 amp service.

Think about it.

A class 320 is socket is rated 320 continuous or 400 non continuous.

What are the standard ratings for one 400 or two 200 amp panels combined? ;)

If you where to have a meter socket rated 400 amp continuous you would need a 500 amp panel to take advantage of it.

i understand that bob. i should have clarified my statement.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Just something I often see misunderstood here on the forums.

No one calls a service with a 100 amp meter socket an 80 amp service or a service with a 200 amp socket a 160 amp service.

So why call a service with a '400' socket a 320 amp service?
 

emahler

Senior Member
iwire said:
Just something I often see misunderstood here on the forums.

No one calls a service with a 100 amp meter socket an 80 amp service or a service with a 200 amp socket a 160 amp service.

So why call a service with a '400' socket a 320 amp service?

I agree, but I see most people think that it really is a true 400A service. But for that we need CT's.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
emahler said:
I agree, but I see most people think that it really is a true 400A service. But for that we need CT's.

That is exactly what I do not understand. :confused:

Why would you say it is not a 'true' 400 amp service?

It is capable of delivering 400 amps for 2 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds, dropping below 320 for a time than supplying 400 amps again.

Just as a typical 200 amp service is capable of delivering 200 amps for 2 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds, dropping below 160 for a time than supplying 200 amps again.

Just as a typical 100 amp service is capable of delivering 100 amps for 2 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds, dropping below 80 for a time than supplying 100 amps again.
 

emahler

Senior Member
Bob, it's just a regional thing i guess. Here you sell the customer a 400A service, then you call the POCO in for a 320A service. Same service. Just described differently.

tow-may-tow
tow-mah-tow
 

emahler

Senior Member
But, you are correct Bob. 320 continuous. 400 max. anything over 320A continuous load and you are up to a 600A (least around here)

so for all intents, purposes and realities, it's a 400A service.
 

cdslotz

Senior Member
petersonra said:
On another forum, someone asked about ugrading his electric service from 100A to 400A to accomodate an electric instantaneous water heater.

100A to 400A? What size is this water heater?
 

emahler

Senior Member
now, i do have a question, and i know this is going off topic, so feel free to move this.

when you look at Milbanks Catalog, the 320 is the only one that they specify as 320 continuous and 400 max. Does that mean that the 100 and 200 are rated at those amperage continuous?

I don't know.

edited to add - that appears to be the case...100A and 200A sockets are continuous at those amperages.

learned something new.
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
emahler said:

I have before and I noticed what you have as well. :confused:

I have never seen a 100 amp socket that did not say 80 amps continuous 100 amps max or non continuous.

Or the same for a 200 amp.

I don't have a good answer to your question.
 

emahler

Senior Member
bob, read page 3 of that link (in the box about the heavy duty lever bypass:

"These sockets are available in 200 and 320 amperes continuous duty rating"

I guess theoretically, I can run the correct size wire and continuously pump 200A through their 200A socket. Don't think I'll try it though:)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Does anyone use a 'heavy duty lever bypass' on a typical service?

I would say the chances of that are about equal to some one ordering a 200 amp panel and breaker with a 100% rating.

Both are available but no one is that I am aware of using them.
 

emahler

Senior Member
honestly bob, i don't know.

the last 200A 208V service I did was commercial, 3ph, and it was a heavy duty lever bypass

but for residential, I don't know. I look it up though.
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I am now missing your point.

Almost anything is available, we can get 100% rated breakers if we want to pay for them.

That has not been the question.

When you install a feeder using 3 AWG CU THHN and a standard 100 amp breaker do you call it an 80 amp feeder?

Or if a customer pays you for a 400 amp feeder do you use a 500 amp breaker and panel so it is a 'true 400 amp feeder'?
 
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