Paint spray on busbars

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dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
I was walking thru some hi rises the other day and noticed the lower level units were painted and OMG! they did not cardboard insert "field practice" the MLO interiors / bus and Yep! covered in paint. NEC110.12(C)....What would one suggest on the cleaning method....or?

Thanks for input
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
Would the manufacturer have instructions? I imagine they might prohibit using solvents. I would also point out in the defence of the electrician that they might have put the inserts in and someone else removed them. It has happened to me before.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
dcspector said:
What would one suggest on the cleaning method....or?

EC does it with a wire brush and back charges the appropiate party...or EC removes the guts and replace and, again, back charge the appropiate party.
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
JohnJ0906 said:
Would the manufacturer have instructions? I imagine they might prohibit using solvents. I would also point out in the defence of the electrician that they might have put the inserts in and someone else removed them. It has happened to me before.
Sorry, the same section that prohibits the paint prohibits cleaners as well.
(110.12(c))
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Has no one used contact cleaner, or similar items, to clean bus in switchgear?

I believe they are alcohol based and would possibley remove the paint as well.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
celtic said:
EC does it with a wire brush

Are you serious?

We would never go for that.

We will let them clean the faces of devices but never bus bars in panels we have to warranty that equipment for at least a year.

We may or may not put cardboard in the panel, IMO (and most of the job specs) each trade must not damage the other trades work.
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
celtic said:
EC does it with a wire brush and back charges the appropiate party...or EC removes the guts and replace and, again, back charge the appropiate party.

That's insane -- I've sat next to panels with bus bars that were cleaned by mechanical means and watched all the nice, pretty blue sparklies. Do it with the lights in the room turned off and the cover removed -- much nicer light show that way.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
iwire said:
Are you serious?
VERY serious.
When "they" figure out the cost to clean these things will be PHENOMINAL...

iwire said:
We would never go for that.
....they go with option "B" ~ replace. ;)

They are more than happy to pay the lower cost of replacement....but I push for the "cleaning fee" so they appreciate the "cut rate" to replace.

Just like when you hit the roof there :D

iwire said:
We will let them clean the faces of devices but never bus bars in panels we have to warranty that equipment for at least a year.

We may or may not put cardboard in the panel, IMO (and most of the job specs) each trade must not damage the other trades work.
No one touches any electrical equipment w/o our authorization.
If the painters, tapers, tile guys,etc want to coat devices with pounds of muck - that's fine...THEY get to clean that off...or THEY get to pay us to remove/replace, clean, etc.
 

dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
I am in this project everyday along with two other hi rises....makes for a long day....the 14 MLO,s per floor were never covered since day one. I try to be proactive as an Inspector and former Electrician (thinking) but I can not believe the contractor did not think about this........Proactive thing.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
tallgirl said:
Do they ever say "No thanks, we'll clean them ourselves?"

They "try" to....to which I reply: You will void any and all warranties and guarantees - whether, written, spoken or implied from both the manufac. and CEC (CEC being us, Celtic Electric).
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
JohnJ0906 said:
IMO, the painter is at fault as much or more than the electrician. They tape a doorknob, but don't cover a panel?

IMO, the painter is at fault 100%.

Regardless if the panel covering was ever installed....take a window for example...if the PC (painting contractor) painted a window, it would hit the fan - they cover windows; same goes for other items such as boilers/furnace, counters and cabinets, showers and tubs, etc etc etc.

The PC bears the responsibilty and the costs for any and all damage.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Greg this a pet peeve of mine, electricians are often given a hard time for not protecting their equipment from the painters.

Why should that be our problem?

I don't see the glazers masking the glass.

I don't see the trim carpenters masking the trim.

I don't see the carpet guys masking the carpet.

If the painter chooses to use a spray gun than IMO it is up to them to take steps to protect everything that is not being painted.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
...and REFUSE to install ANY CBs until the issue is completely resolved....a check will do nicely, thank you very much.
 

dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
Bob, Celtic and all,

I was not pointing fingers and as a former EC I would have inserted the cardboard.......But You are correct....the painter is the one who did this so I will keep you posted next week on what they propose.

Note: If this forum did not exist.....what would an Individual do?....Just a thought.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
dcspector said:
If this forum did not exist.....what would an Individual do?....Just a thought.


istockphoto_696141_thinking_caveman_vector.jpg



No offense taken DC.
I am of the opinion that the EC could have provided some covering to protect his equipment - but he is under no obligation to do so.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
I`ve brought this up numerous times.Painters painting panel and/or meter bases.I found a sure fire way to circumvent this in the future.With an outragous backcharge for a painted item the figure i use is $395.00.

I had one area that had 17 painted panels from the same painting contractor and backcharged $395.00 for each panel.No cleaning allowed.They were installed clean and need to be free from solvents of any type.The builders in order to get a final and a C.O. go along with it and just hand them the backcharge.

Do this once and the painting contractor will ensure that the guys they have,mask and paper all the panels they go near.I had one contractor freak over this.I asked him if you paint near a cabinet what do you do ? Mask it off was the answer.If you paint near a window, what do you do ???? Mask it off, was the answer.My only response was OK so what`s the problem ????
 
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