110.26

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Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Inspector seems to think a breaker lock solves the problem of disconnect for AC unit and airhandler pull out when work space can not be had.I did not want to push him for a number here.He did admit that he knows they will never get used but relieves us both of liability.Also said that if a panel door has a lock that he would except that if key is on site for inspection.Opinions ?
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Jim,

It was my impression that the circuit breaker could only be locked to fixed piece of the enclosure. From what I heard a breaker lock was not an approved manner.


Justin J. Walecka
 

rickjus

Member
Location
Tampa, Florida
Hmmm, good question!

Looking in the 1999 NEC I would say yes.

However, by 2002 NEC 440.14 which points me to 430.102 which say no...provided the exceptions do not apply...

Quote in the 2002 NEC handbook...

"Disconnect switches or circuit breakers that are only located behind the locked door of a panelboard or located within locked rooms do not comply with the requirements of 430.102."
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I still have the disconnect,what is at issue is work space.We all know Mr AC will not turn the breaker off and lock it to check for voltage.What good would that do him ? He needs to know if he has voltage.Locking it out will not help him at all.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Jim I know what county you are dealing with.They are fine with a breaker lock when the disc. doesn`t comply with 110.26.Not energized then no working clearance needed.Kind of like a red light at an intersection.Don`t stop blam.Don`t lock it out blam.They also require breaker locks on wall ovens,cook tops.We are not here to say that they will not be used by the service tech.Afford them the opportunity to work safley by locking it out.If not then it`s on the service techs. shoulders.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Inspector seems to think a breaker lock solves the problem of disconnect for AC unit and airhandler pull out when work space can not be had.I did not want to push him for a number here.He did admit that he knows they will never get used but relieves us both of liability.Also said that if a panel door has a lock that he would except that if key is on site for inspection.Opinions ?
Jim, Is the disconnect fused or does it have a circuit breaker in it? If none of these are in the disconnect, the 30"x36" clearance is not required. This response is going to generate a lot of "what ife'rs". But it's quite clear in the code.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
McDowellb said:
Jim, Is the disconnect fused or does it have a circuit breaker in it? If none of these are in the disconnect, the 30"x36" clearance is not required. This response is going to generate a lot of "what ife'rs". But it's quite clear in the code.

Could you show me how you come up with this. I have been looking for a long time but I can't find this.
 
jwelectric said:
Could you show me how you come up with this. I have been looking for a long time but I can't find this.
(A) Working Space Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
The intent of 110.26(A) is to provide enough space for personnel to perform any of the operations listed without jeopardizing worker safety. These operations include examination, adjustment, servicing, and maintenance of equipment. Examples of such equipment include panelboards, switches, circuit breakers, controllers, and controls on heating and air-conditioning equipment. It is important to understand that the word examination, as used in 110.26(A), includes such tasks as checking for the presence of voltage using a portable voltmeter.
Minimum working clearances are not required if the equipment is such that it is not likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized. However, ``sufficient'' access and working space are still required by the opening paragraph of 110.26.
(1) Depth of Working Space The depth of the working space in the direction of live parts shall not be less than that specified in Table 110.26(A)(1) unless the requirements of 110.26(A)(1)(a), (A)(1)(b), or (A)(1)(c) are met. Distances shall be measured from the exposed live parts or from the enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Mcdowellb said:
It is important to understand that the word examination, as used in 110.26(A), includes such tasks as checking for the presence of voltage using a portable voltmeter.

This sentence seems to support the need for working space clearance in front of a non-fused A/C disconnect. As has been pointed out many times, the HVAC tech will most likely check voltage at the disconnect, when troubleshooting the A/C unit.

You still haven't shown where in the code it says that if it is a non-fused disconnect it is exempt from 110.26(A)

Chris
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
mcdowellb,
But it's quite clear in the code.
Yes the code wording is very clear. If it is electrcial equipment that is likely to be worked on while energized, you must provide the safe work space as shown in 110.26(A).
Don
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
don_resqcapt19 said:
mcdowellb,

Yes the code wording is very clear. If it is electrcial equipment that is likely to be worked on while energized, you must provide the safe work space as shown in 110.26(A).
Don

Agreed. And like I said in my first post, only the AHJ knows what will be worked on while energized.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
ryan_618 said:
Agreed. And like I said in my first post, only the AHJ knows what will be worked on while energized.

IMO nothing should be worked on while energized. Now troubleshooting IMO is not the same as working on something energized. In the process of troubleshooting we normally start out with equipment energized. When it comes time to do the repair it is de energized and locked out.

Now having said all of that I'm certainly not an AHJ, so won't argue the point.;)
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
raider1 said:
Mcdowellb said:
It is important to understand that the word examination, as used in 110.26(A), includes such tasks as checking for the presence of voltage using a portable voltmeter.
This sentence seems to support the need for working space clearance in front of a non-fused A/C disconnect. As has been pointed out many times, the HVAC tech will most likely check voltage at the disconnect, when troubleshooting the A/C unit.
You still haven't shown where in the code it says that if it is a non-fused disconnect it is exempt from 110.26(A)
Chris

I agree with Chris. You haven't shown where a nonfused disconnect is exempted.

don_resqcapt19 said:
McDowellb said:
But it's quite clear in the code.
mcdowellb,Yes the code wording is very clear. If it is electrcial equipment that is likely to be worked on while energized, you must provide the safe work space as shown in 110.26(A). Don

Let?s not stop with the word ?work? and include all that is mentioned in section 110.26(A) such as examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance.
To turn it from on to off could be called operation instead of adjustment but any way you look at the procedure it was adjusted from one state to another.

ryan_618 said:
Agreed. And like I said in my first post, only the AHJ knows what will be worked on while energized.
With one so wise as Mr. Jackson I must choose my debates carefully. Here I must disagree with your statement that ?only? the inspector will know what is to be worked on when energized. Bet the person doing the work will know about it too. lol
 
jwelectric said:
I agree with Chris. You haven't shown where a nonfused disconnect is exempted.



Let?s not stop with the word ?work? and include all that is mentioned in section 110.26(A) such as examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance.
To turn it from on to off could be called operation instead of adjustment but any way you look at the procedure it was adjusted from one state to another.


With one so wise as Mr. Jackson I must choose my debates carefully. Here I must disagree with your statement that ?only? the inspector will know what is to be worked on when energized. Bet the person doing the work will know about it too. lol
110.26. Show me in the code where it is required to have clearance in front of a non-fused disconnect. It does not have serviceable parts. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason or code to have clearance in front of a non-fused disconnect. What about a light switch then???? Or the receptacle behind the refridgerator. This discussion has been beat to death. Quite simply, I DO NOT mount them with the 30"x36" clearances and I have been written up rarely, but I've yet to change one. I've always shown the inspector the error in his thinking. "You've seen the rest now hire the best" is my motto
 

cpal

Senior Member
Location
MA
dlhoule said:
IMO nothing should be worked on while energized. Now troubleshooting IMO is not the same as working on something energized. In the process of troubleshooting we normally start out with equipment energized. When it comes time to do the repair it is de energized and locked out.

Now having said all of that I'm certainly not an AHJ, so won't argue the point.;)


I do not think this tac will hold water with NFPA 70E (OSHA) requirements!!

Charlie
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I am not fighting him on this.The ac man will check for voltage,fused or not.He is taking a fast check before doing the harder job of taking panel cover off the ac.My point is that turning off the breaker and locking it leaves him with no voltage,so why even bother to take a reading.He did agree that they will not ever be used.In 25 years of wiring he is the first to suggest this as a cure.Personally i dont think it fixes the violation at all.They should simply make the last person MOVE IT.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
allenwayne said:
Jim I know what county you are dealing with.They are fine with a breaker lock when the disc. doesn`t comply with 110.26.Not energized then no working clearance needed.Kind of like a red light at an intersection.Don`t stop blam.Don`t lock it out blam.They also require breaker locks on wall ovens,cook tops.We are not here to say that they will not be used by the service tech.Afford them the opportunity to work safley by locking it out.If not then it`s on the service techs. shoulders.
Check your mail
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Show me in the code where it is required to have clearance in front of a non-fused disconnect. It does not have serviceable parts.

110.26(A)

110.26(A) doesn't require a piece of equipment to have "serviceable parts" to need the required working space.

Read the section "Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the diminsions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3)..."

Mcdowellb said:
It is important to understand that the word examination, as used in 110.26(A), includes such tasks as checking for the presence of voltage using a portable voltmeter.

How do you check for voltage without the disconnect being energized?

Again I don't think that fuses are required for a disconnect to need to meet the requirements of 110.26(A)

Chris
 
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