permit or not?

Status
Not open for further replies.

stew

Senior Member
This question is for sme of our inspector type guys in Washington State.Is a water heater replacement rquired to have a permit? Is a water heater an appliance or "utilization equipment" whatever that is. My sense is that a replacement would not need a permit HOWEVER when new wire and flex are used then "wiring" has been done. Maybe not a permit requirement but in my opinion that is work to be done only by a licensed electrician here and not a plumber or water heater installer. Any thoughts? Also if a new heater is installed on an existing 20 amp circuit we have a WAC violation .
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: permit or not?

I don't know about WA but I cannot imagine anyone in IL outside of maybe Chicago getting a permit to replace an existing water heater.

I can't imagine a plumber hiring an electrician to undo a few wires and redo them either.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Re: permit or not?

petersonra said:
I can't imagine a plumber hiring an electrician to undo a few wires and redo them either.

I can't imagine an electrician hiring a plumber to undo a few joints and redo them either. :)
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Forcing a permit for a water heater changeout would only result in a handyman doing both jobs with no permit.The added cost of 2 permits and a lost day of pay to let inspector in to inspect is crazy and very few would do it.Rather see perhaps a license to do water heaters that required a test and insurance to do both jobs.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Jim W in Tampa said:
Forcing a permit for a water heater changeout would only result in a handyman doing both jobs with no permit.The added cost of 2 permits and a lost day of pay to let inspector in to inspect is crazy and very few would do it.Rather see perhaps a license to do water heaters that required a test and insurance to do both jobs.

Forcing yet another license- with subsequesnt fee, and insurance - with subsequent premium, probably isn't going to float either.


Joe Handyman might love this concept - he can create a niche market of "just" swapping out heaters...and certainly won't refuse when Joe Homeowner says "Wow, you have both an electrical and plumbing license...can you change my service?"
 

royal

Member
The town I am located in, in California, requires a permit and inspections for WH swap outs.
I just did one, and when I asked the inspector about he said that:

1: any work done resulting in $500 or more of labor, at the applicable local rate, plus material and
2: since most people do not realise the dangers that a improperly installed WH can present, IE pressure relief valves, improper wiring, earthquake strapping and the like, a permit is required.

What amazes me about this is that he was by-the-book, to-the-code on every little thing on this install, but when you ask him about AFCI's on the lighting circuits and smokes in a bedroom, he say's that locally they do not enforce the requirements because the local electricians are having to hard of a time getting them to work.
Mind you, they don't check to see if you are licensed around here either.

I would consider a WH an appliance.

Tim
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
aftershock said:
Here where I live, we are suppose to pull a permit even when changing out a light fixture.

And just how often does a permit get pulled ?
A licensed man for small things should not require a permit.Handymen must love counties that demand permits for water heaters.Counties must know they are doing the work
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Around here a permit is required in some places. When you get the permit they give you a sticker to put on the old tank so that you can leave it out at the curb. The town will come by and pick it up for free. No sticker, no pickup.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
infinity said:
Around here a permit is required in some places. When you get the permit they give you a sticker to put on the old tank so that you can leave it out at the curb. The town will come by and pick it up for free. No sticker, no pickup.

Around here, they go a bit further...No sticker, no pickup AND they give you a fine.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
celtic said:
infinity said:
Around here a permit is required in some places. When you get the permit they give you a sticker to put on the old tank so that you can leave it out at the curb. The town will come by and pick it up for free. No sticker, no pickup.

Around here, they go a bit further...No sticker, no pickup AND they give you a fine.


Oh yeah, and that too.
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
Around here, the Big Box Stores send a couple of their warehouse monkeys to install the WH, or Ceiling Fan, or Light Fixtures, or...

Says I to a Big Orange Guy next door to the service call I was on, "Hey, you a gotta licence to do that?" His answer was classic. "Licenses? We don't need no stinkin' licenses!"
 

stew

Senior Member
I realize that the plumbers may be competent to disconnect 3 wires and reconect those same 3 wires back to a water heater circuit. The problem I have is when they also say move the heater a few feet to be able to replumb or instal the required earthquake bracing. They then just so happen to have a new roll of flex and some brand new wire and fittings to accomplish this task. They have then jsut done "wiring" and according to our law in this state have done so without the requisite license to do so. Are they also qualified then to determine if the circuit is adequate IE proper wire size and breaker type. Does it have the proper disconnecting means if needed? does it have a breaker lockout if required? Are plumbers and the joe installers that the big box stores are using "qualified " to do this work? I think NOT. permits may not be required but electrical licenses are in this state and Im not advocating permits for this my biggest concern is the safety of the installation.
 

tonyi

Senior Member
celtic said:
Around here, they go a bit further...No sticker, no pickup AND they give you a fine.

Albany NY was doing that for a while years ago...then they smartened up and realized all they were generating was vacant lots full of dead appliances. :lol: Now they pick the stuff up for free and the vacant lots stay mostly clear.
 

russ

Senior Member
Location
Burbank IL
Water heater replacements are one thing that we do not require a permit.
We will inspect the installation if reqested by the home owner.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
tonyi said:

Albany NY was doing that for a while years ago...then they smartened up and realized all they were generating was vacant lots

Ah, tony, maybe if they were nicer they wouldn't create so many vacant lots. :twisted: :twisted:

:D Okay so maybe I missed a word or 2! :D :D
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Here in CA a water heater replacement requires a permit.

You have to bring the new install up to the new codes. Earthquake straps, P & T disposing outside of the building, 18" above the floor, smitty pan, etc.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
The non permit required work is listed in chapter 296-46B Section 900, under class A basic electrical work.
If this is a household appilance then it does not require a permit.
If a permit is required it can be a $10 Class B label.
Even with no permit, the person doing the work must be an 01 or 02 electrician, or a certified plumber.
(OK- in WA State electricans can do incidential plumbing and vice versa for plumbers)
PM me if you have any other questions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top