Sheet rock as adequate support

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JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
I have a question regarding the use of Toggle bolts with wings as an approved method of mounting electrical fixtures, boxes and the like.


An exceptional Electrician once told me that all our equipment must be mounted to the structure. Decking, stud, Ferring strip ext.
Using a toggle bolt in the sheet rock was a code violation.
I usually mount boxes, Exit signs, ext with toggle bolts if a stud is not available.

314.23 (A) Surface mounting An enclosure mounted on a building or other surface shall be rigidly and securely fastened in place. If the surface does not provide rigid and secure support, additional support in accordance with other provisions of this section shall be provided

314.23 (D)(1) Framing members An enclosure shall be fastened to the framing members by mechanical means such as bolts, screws, or rivets or by the use of clips or other securing means identified for use with the type of ceiling framing member(s) and enclosure(s) employed. The framing member shall be adequately supported and securely fastened to each other and to the building structure.

314.23(D)(1) applies to suspended ceilings so I'm not sure if it applies to my question regarding sheet rock as Adequate support.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Jim W in Tampa,

I appreciate your feedback. I use them alot as stated also. I was curious if sheet rock would be considered an adequate material to support to.

We both have seen installations that were passed by the Authority having jurisdiction that were not code compliant.

To my girlfriends dismay I love this Forum and appreciate any information and or comments.

Thank you again.

Justin W.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Justin as always 'adequate support' is strictly a judgment call.

Is sheet rock adequate?

Sure it is for some things and definitely not adequate for others.

Typical cheap lightweight Luminaires, exit signs no problem.

600 amp 480 volt panel?

Probably not.

Although I will use 1/4" toggles installed right into metal studs to fasten unistrut to the wall to hang panels on.

As far as your girlfriend maybe all the 'forum widows' should get together into a support group. :wink:
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Iwire,

Toggle bolts through the metal stud is a great way to support somethings.

Electricianmanscott,

Do not go there regarding my Girlfriend. Lets keep this professional. I have read your posts before and you seem like an funny guy. So I will try not to take offence. If I'm not mistaken you are from Massachusetts perhaps our paths will cross.

Justin J. Wwalecka
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
As Jim and Bob said, toggle bolts in sheetrock are fine. It's all dependent on what you 're hanging. I once saw a 2X4 surface mounted florescent fixture toggle bolted to concealed spline ceiling tiles. It stayed up for about two days before the fixture and the ceiling fell to the floor. Had the ceiling been sheetrock it would still be hanging.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
infinity said:
I once saw a 2X4 surface mounted florescent fixture toggle bolted to concealed spline ceiling tiles.

eek! :shock:

You would be better off toggling to paper mache than to those spline tiles.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
iwire said:
infinity said:
I once saw a 2X4 surface mounted florescent fixture toggle bolted to concealed spline ceiling tiles.

eek! :shock:

You would be better off toggling to paper mache than to those spline tiles.


Exactly! A couple of sheetrock screws into the Z bar would have been better. :wink:

It was a couple of maintenance guys (untrained handymen) doing some work for the the guy leasing the office space. Hung the fixture on Friday night after everyone left. Fell down Monday morning, narrowly missing an office employee. Called us to rehang it.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Trevor,
I once saw a 2X4 surface mounted florescent fixture toggle bolted to concealed spline ceiling tiles. It stayed up for about two days before the fixture and the ceiling fell to the floor. Had the ceiling been sheetrock it would still be hanging.
I have seen three cases where that type of fixture hung by toggle bolts on drywall came down. In one case it was a whole row. I would never even consider hanging a fixture like that with toggles in the drywall. Drywall can barely support itself, let alone additional loads like light fixtures.
Don
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
5/8 drywally holds a lot but we must apply some thinking as to weight.Normal under 10 lbs with 2 toggles should be fine forever.Not suggesting ceiling fans or fixtures that weigh in at 50 lbs

Anyone needing a few extra girl friends send private letter i have more than my wife thinks i need :lol:
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
don_resqcapt19 said:
Trevor,
I once saw a 2X4 surface mounted florescent fixture toggle bolted to concealed spline ceiling tiles. It stayed up for about two days before the fixture and the ceiling fell to the floor. Had the ceiling been sheetrock it would still be hanging.
I have seen three cases where that type of fixture hung by toggle bolts on drywall came down. In one case it was a whole row. I would never even consider hanging a fixture like that with toggles in the drywall. Drywall can barely support itself, let alone additional loads like light fixtures.
Don


Again, this goes back to a very subjective look at each particular installation. Sheetrock can and is used for the support of fixtures, exit signs, panels, etc. everyday. I'm sure that most of us have installed old work style recessed cans that are simply supported by the sheetrock. This is perfectly acceptable since the fixture is not very heavy. Hanging a 100# chandelier off of sheetrock wouldn't be a very good idea. Not necessarily because the toggle bolts would fail, but as you've mentioned the ceiling would fall down.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Trevor,
Again, this goes back to a very subjective look at each particular installation. Sheetrock can and is used for the support of fixtures, exit signs, panels, etc. everyday. I'm sure that most of us have installed old work style recessed cans that are simply supported by the sheetrock.
Maybe exit lights and recessed cans, but never panels or 4' fixtures. The drywall is not suitable for that application. Even if the support does not completely fail, it will bow the drywall down. I would expect that there are building code rules on this issue, but I am not sure.
Don
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Don it is very common in this area and it works fine with most modern (light weight electronic ballast) surface mounted fluorescents.

The only time I see it fail is if the sheet rock gets wet.

I have repaired a few 1' x 4' surface fixtures that came down when pipes burst.

The 'rock' was coming down anyway, had the fixtures been secured to the structure they might have held the wet rock up.

Now that you bring it up it would not surprise me if there are building code rules about this but I have never been questioned about it. :? .
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
From the Gypsum Construction Handbook.
Gypsum boards used in the ceiling are not designed to support light fixtures or troffers, air vents or other equipment. Separate supports must be provided.
I found the handbook here, but you have to register to see it.
Don
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Well don't send it to my local Inspection services department. :shock:

To get the contractors in this area to give up toggling things to the ceiling would be as likely as getting NM approved in your local City. :lol:
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
don_resqcapt19 said:
Trevor,
Again, this goes back to a very subjective look at each particular installation. Sheetrock can and is used for the support of fixtures, exit signs, panels, etc. everyday. I'm sure that most of us have installed old work style recessed cans that are simply supported by the sheetrock.
Maybe exit lights and recessed cans, but never panels or 4' fixtures. The drywall is not suitable for that application. Even if the support does not completely fail, it will bow the drywall down. I would expect that there are building code rules on this issue, but I am not sure.
Don

Why not 4 foot wraps ? Been hanging them with toggles for over 20 years and never once had a problem.And now with T8 and electronic ballast they weigh even less.
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
with a 4x2 fixture it is very hard to not find a stud to also afix the fixture too. I also use toggle bolts then follow up by sending a couple of screws through the studs. I had to go to my church offices about a month ago and hang a new 1x4 the old one fell after what sems to me to be 10 or more years the jackleg who hung it put it up with 2 drywall screws into lathe and plaster. stayed for a long time that way but nearly killed the secretary that day.
 
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