glass house receptacles

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George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Radio, have you peeked at 550.13(G)(2)? It appears that in regular houses, they intend to count the area behind doorswings.

I don't see how tempting a receptacle will be for permanent use in a spot where it would interfere with using the door. More likely, a vacuum cleaner or other temporary appliance (or a nightlight having a small profile) will be plugged in there. More likely still, it will never be used.

Look at this another way: Are we going to stop in once a month and be sure Toby hasn't cluttered his floor with dirty clothes, impeding his egress from the room?

Why concern ourselves with such things?

Not trying to be combative, just voicing the other side. :)
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
lol...not combative at all......was just elaborating on a point that came up....example in point....Standard Dwellings and then your reference Mobile Homes and Manufactured Homes....doorway swing is a doorway swing...

Clarity.........thats what I look for in revisions to the NEC...:)

Besides like I said.....was only the AHJ's opinion........

O BTW.....not concerning myself with such things.......I use the examples on here in classes I teach.....I like everyones opinion.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
(A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1) through (A)(3).
(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
(3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.

I dont see it saying usable.
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
My thought on looking at the pictures of the 'glass house', along with the question about receptacles and wall space:

Uni-strut along the perimeter at floor level.

It seems to me that having a raceway at the floor level perimeter would be right in line with the theme of the house, including the 't-slot extrusion' being used at the top of the windows. This would permit all of the required receptacles, and would ease installation of new circuits as required. Strut channel (of which Unistrut is a brand) could be used as this raceway. There are numerous fittings available (receptacle mounts, transitions to cables or other raceway systems, covers, etc.) for using strut channel electrically.

If you use the type with multiple channels welded together, I believe that it would be sturdy enough to also function as a rail to prevent furniture from being backed into the glass, and as a support for mounting floor to ceiling items. There are some rules regarding supporting other items with raceways, I am not sure how they apply to structural metal when used as a raceway.

A friend has a warehouse loft, where strut channel raceway was used for all floor level electrical, rather than cables fished in walls. Rather than being an ugly half hidden surface wiring method, it became a rather striking and attractive design feature.

-Jon
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
winnie said:
My thought on looking at the pictures of the 'glass house', along with the question about receptacles and wall space:

Uni-strut along the perimeter at floor level.

It seems to me that having a raceway at the floor level perimeter would be right in line with the theme of the house, including the 't-slot extrusion' being used at the top of the windows. This would permit all of the required receptacles, and would ease installation of new circuits as required. Strut channel (of which Unistrut is a brand) could be used as this raceway. There are numerous fittings available (receptacle mounts, transitions to cables or other raceway systems, covers, etc.) for using strut channel electrically.

If you use the type with multiple channels welded together, I believe that it would be sturdy enough to also function as a rail to prevent furniture from being backed into the glass, and as a support for mounting floor to ceiling items. There are some rules regarding supporting other items with raceways, I am not sure how they apply to structural metal when used as a raceway.

A friend has a warehouse loft, where strut channel raceway was used for all floor level electrical, rather than cables fished in walls. Rather than being an ugly half hidden surface wiring method, it became a rather striking and attractive design feature.

-Jon

I like this idea. Pretty clever thinking of your friend. Any time you can solve two problems with one solution is usually a good thing.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
Jim W in Tampa said:
(A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1) through (A)(3).
(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
(3) Floor Receptacles. Receptacle outlets in floors shall not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle outlets unless located within 450 mm (18 in.) of the wall.

I dont see it saying usable.

Jim,

The question was would it be considered a hallway.....versus the bedroom was the AHJ's position. He said it was only usable as a hallway for the 3' coming into the room....unlike going into a normal room....so he said he considered it a hallway and no receptacle was needed since it was under 10'

Just passing on a conversation I had.....nothing about the info you posted is unfamiliar....was only tell you what a local AHJ said as he considered that area a hallway to the actual room space....and thus he felt it fell under the hallway portion of that section.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
AHHHHH the infamous question what is considered a hallway ?????? The NEC has 2 references to what shall be in a hallway.# 1 a receptacle if 10 ft /+ and a light and a switch.The latter became an issue with the 02 cycle.What constitutes a hallway? Does it have to be 10 ft./+ to require a light and switch ??? Or is it any area that is seperate from a designated room that leads into another room.This came up in a model with a 36 X 36 area with a barrel ceiling like 7 1/2 ft. at the top of the arch,that led from the family room into a bedroom.The inspector called it a hallway and required a light in the arch.

The part that got me upset was that when he did wall spacing measurments he started his measurement from the door into the same bedroom and wrapped the corner for 6 ft.measurment.So I asked him,how can you start your measurement from the door into the bed room when you`re calling it a hallway and require a light ???? His answer still usable wall space.IMO the measurement should have started from the corner of the now deignated hallway due to having to install a light and switch.

The NEC requires certain items in a hallway but doesn`t define what constitutes a hallway.It uses the terms USABLE OR HABITABLE area or space.Some prints will define an area as a hallway just as they define kitchen ,den,etc.Some just list the standard text den,family room, etc.

Picture this....A floor plan that in the dining room there are 2 walls one 14 ft and the perpindicular wall 16 ft.,now 3 ft off the 16 ft. wall is another perpindicular wall that is common to another room.This 3 ft.area leads into a laundry room and kitchen. look to the right there is a wall that is parralel with the 14 ft wall.but seperated by this 3 ft space, the print lists the 14 X 16 dining room in actual measurements.It shows the 3 ft to the 3rd wall.

Is this a hallway ????? It leads from one room into another area, The wall is more that 10 ft so there has to be a receptacle.But does it need to make spacing requiremts for habitable/usable space or does it have to just meet the requirement for a 10ft.+ hallway ????This leads into the argument.Well it is up to the inspector....But what if inspector A says it`s a hallway and inspector B says its habitable/usable space.
 
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