Does 110.3 (B) overide 210.19 (3)

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Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
I am finding many top end ranges requireing 50 amp circuits and cook tops requiring 40 amp circuits. 210.19 allowes 40 and 30 amp circuits for these applications. The install instructions call for the larger ampasities. The argument is that the full load will never be used. I have been told to egnore this by my AHJ and move on but then I am told to use 110.3 (B) if I find different manufactours breakers in panels. What's a person to do?
 

iwire

Moderator
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Location
Massachusetts
IMO yes, the manufactures instructions override NEC minimums.

In other words you must always use the most stringent requirements.

What are you to do?

Tough question, usually I do what the boss says but there is a limit to that.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
Now we only need to know if the instructions are "listing and labling instructions" or manufacturer's recomendations.
Don
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
don_resqcapt19 said:
Now we only need to know if the instructions are "listing and labling instructions" or manufacturer's recomendations.
Don

Don I figured you would say that. :)

IMHO any instruction from a manufacturer that specifies a circuit size is one I will assume to be part of the listing.

If on the off chance I had to defend my actions I am in a much better position to have not ignored the instructions.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Bob,
IMHO any instruction from a manufacturer that specifies a circuit size is one I will assume to be part of the listing.
Without access to the very expensive UL standards, I have no idea what is involved in the listing and testing by UL or its competitors.
Don
 

iwire

Moderator
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Location
Massachusetts
Don,

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

It looks to me that 110.3(B) requires us to follow the labeling regardless of the listing.

It is an oddly worded section.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I take the word 'labeling' in 110.3(B) to mean actual instructional labels on the equipment, and not any NRTL seal labels. UL labels, for instance, never contain instructions. They only contain the seal and reference numbers and such.

Examples of this would be "horizontal mounting only", "90* supply conductors", "60 watt max.", etc.

I'm not sure that I've seen listings that contain specific instructional material.
 
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websparky

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Cavie,

210.19 allowes 40 and 30 amp circuits for these applications.

The minimum circuit rating for ranges 8 3/4 kW or more shall be 40A.
The math is: 8750 divided by 240 = 36A which would require a 40A circuit.
If the range is larger,(8 3/4 kW or more) a larger circuit is required.
I don't see where 210.19 allows a 30A circuit?
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
Marc,
I take the word 'labeling' in 110.3(B) to mean actual instructional labels on the equipment, and not any NRTL seal labels. UL labels, for instance, never contain instructions. They only contain the seal and reference numbers and such.
(B) Installation and Use Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
If the instructions are not included in the listing and labeling they are not required to be followed by 110.3(B). If the manufacturer's instructions are part of the "listing and labeling instructions", then there is no possible code compliant use of classified breakers. UL wants to have it both ways, they say that the instructions that are provided with the equipment are 110.3(B) instructions, but they also tell us that you are permitted to use classified breakers. These two ideas are in conflict with each other. It is my opinion that any instruction that is not in the actual standard that the item is listed to, is not a 110.3(B) instruction.
Don
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
don_resqcapt19 said:
If the instructions are not included in the listing and labeling they are not required to be followed by 110.3(B).

Don the labeling part of that section is separate from the instructions part.

Its 'instructors included in the listing OR labeling.

The labeling is not required to be part of the listing.
 
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