Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

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JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

Originally posted by marinesgt0411:
drywallers love it when I use a BFH to find the outlets they buried and refuse to find
My best builder is 2nd generation. My father used to do half of his fathers work until the other electrician used this technique to find a buried box. around 1970. After that my father did all of their work. About 50 houses a year at the time.
 

Paul B

Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

We cut all of our own. We use a saber saw, I cover the bottom with that blue tape used for painting, avoids scratches.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

The best addition to a saber saw (jigsaw) is a sheet of self-adhesive felt. No more scratches. Works well for floor-boxes, too.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

Originally posted by marinesgt0411:
I agree if I cannot cut it with a razor knife or drywall saw someone else will have to cut the hole
This is how we get our "pri madonna" reputation. :roll:
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

Originally posted by augie47:
I would think if you wanted to mount one there you could, you just couldn't count it as one of the required S/A branch ciruit outlets. Yes?
Not necessarily true. Depending on the location of the receptacle, it might be required to be on a SABC.

But it couldn't count as a required countertop outlet. :D )
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

I also cut my own holes. Weapon of choice: Rotozip.

I can't imagine a cabinet guy cutting a useable hole without a great deal of training. It's not their job, IMO, it's ours. Just don't screw up. Think small, miss small.

Reminds me of a time when I used to cut them in with a sawzall with a metal blade. I went out to a custom trim, and found a custom island (basically built in place), it needed four devices cut in to it. The island costed a lot, can't remember how much now.

The box I cut in on one end needed to be as close to the countertop as possible, since it backed up to a bookshelf for cookbooks and the owner didn't want to see the back of the box. Well, I screwed up and mismeasured, cut the receptacle in higher than the base of the countertop! ;)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

For me much depends on the type of job we are on.

If I get sent to someones house to install a few outlets of course I am going to cut my own holes.

If I am on a construction site usually it will be the carpenters that must cut my openings, if they cut it wrong they get to fix it and do it again. ;)
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

If you want to get out of cutting cabinets just bring out a sawzall with a 12" demo blade and act like you are going to cut the box in with that.
Bob, amazingly enough, the carpenters I get to work around only seem to have that length of blade for their sawzall's. So they would not think the least bit about my demo blade. I end up cutting my own cab knockouts ever since the lead finish man for the primary builder I work for used a rough cut blade on his saber saw on a $500 base cabinet. The splintered mess around the hole was impossible to cover with a goof plate. Yet, I got all the complaints from the disgruntled owners. I have learned to roto-zip so well, I now am able to take out a small shaved area where the old work box mounting bracket is so the box sits absolutely flush with the cabinet face. Mike's tip time - old work boxes have that rounded bump area for the 6-32 screws at both ends that must be cut out for. It makes the job easier to mark the spot on the cut out first, and use a small diameter unibit in your cordless to drill out a hole at those two spots first before cutting out the rest of the box opening.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

Originally posted by macmikeman:
I have learned to roto-zip so well, I now am able to take out a small shaved area where the old work box mounting bracket is so the box sits absolutely flush with the cabinet face.
Very nice :cool:

Originally posted by macmikeman:
Mike's tip time - old work boxes have that rounded bump area for the 6-32 screws at both ends that must be cut out for.
I usually use a 3/8" bit at the 6-32 spots and at the opposite corners of the box where the big 'bumps' stick out. Then often I end up using a sawzall with a blade that looks like a jig saw blade.
 

JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

Originally posted by iwire:
I usually use a 3/8" bit at the 6-32 spots and at the opposite corners of the box where the big 'bumps' stick out. Then often I end up using a sawzall with a blade that looks like a jig saw blade.
I do the same exact thing. I usually drill the other 2 corners also since the spots where the sides and top used to sort of fold over each other now stick out a bit. Naturally this is for metal old work boxes, but I have seen a lot of guys use plastic boxes,

I like the idea of the rotozip, but haven't really had enough need for it to buy one. One of my guys brings his personal one in and although doesn't use it for island receptacles, has used it to trim poor tile jobs. He also used it to cut out a botched installation of a vinyl ceiling on a farmer's porch around recessed lights.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

I usually use a 3/8" bit at the 6-32 spots and at the opposite corners of the box where the big 'bumps' stick out. Then often I end up using a sawzall with a blade that looks like a jig saw blade.
I use non metalic union brand boxes. They are the bakalite ones and don't have bumps on the corners like the metal or the fiberglass old work box version. As far as physical protection of the romex inside the cabinet, well, that is a 3,000 mile out in the Pacific Ocean trade secret, but they did expose our methods once on "This Old House" Hawaii episode, and it caused a good deal of amazment on the hosts part.
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

My response was basically in regards to new construction.Cabiney installers know when they have holes to cut out after a few hunderd one would think they get the idea.Sometimes they get lazy and don`t do it,then they have a return trip to make.
When doing service then and only then will I cut an opening and if on other than drywall I make sure the homeowner knows that I take no responsibility but will do my best to not damage the surface of what is being cut.
Prima donna nope just cautious.When the cabinet people forget to make a cut that they know is needed in a $30,000 kitchen damned if I am going to cut it.Now drywall is another story all together but cabinets nope.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Kitchen Counter Recps. BELOW counter?

Originally posted by j_erickson:
I like the idea of the rotozip, but haven't really had enough need for it to buy one.
I felt the same way. I got my cheapo $30 Harbor-Freight rotozip for Christmas one year, and tried it on a vinyl siding soffit. It leaped all over the place, and out of fear, it sat in the back of my closet thereafter.

When my "apprentice" brought his in and cut in a flawless, beautiful, picture-worthy hole for a metal cut-in. The little bump for the 6/32's, and the little hinge-bump in the corners, all at once. No drill required.

I'd never use anything else again. It's that good. Give it a shot, I can guarantee you'll delight at the results. ;)
 
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