Grounding a whirlpool with plastic pipe through out intire home

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Our company wired a new home before the plumbing got installed and when we got back to the house to do the finish it had all plastic plumbing pipe through out the intire house. The motor on the whirlpool has a ground lug so will I have to fish a ground back to the panel since the pipe is plastic and do the metal parts on the tub such as the faucet need to be grounded?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
You have nothing to do.

That lug is not a grounding lug, the grounding is done by the equipment grounding conductor with the branch circuit.

The lug is to be used for bonding if there is anything to bond.

From your description there is nothing to bond.
 
I was under the impression that the extra ground wire that we always terminate to the cold water line acts as a backup ground if the ground in the wire becomes loose, cut or fails to give a connection to the motor.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
hydro ground

hydro ground

inspected two this week where the mfg. instructions required a #8 bond to service equipment. In our area, if the mfg. instructions require it, we require it base on 100-3.
 

JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
augie47 said:
inspected two this week where the mfg. instructions required a #8 bond to service equipment. In our area, if the mfg. instructions require it, we require it base on 100-3.

Interesting. Who reads the instructions. :D
 

cpal

Senior Member
Location
MA
augie47 said:
inspected two this week where the mfg. instructions required a #8 bond to service equipment. In our area, if the mfg. instructions require it, we require it base on 100-3.


who was the mfg and what models????
 

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
stickboy1375 said:
I am working on manufacturing plastic ground clamps, so in the future this wont be a problem...

Sell them at Home Depot, you will do well.
 

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
Don't forget bonding bushings on your pvc male adaptors when they enter a box.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
wizzzard11 said:
I was under the impression that the extra ground wire that we always terminate to the cold water line acts as a backup ground if the ground in the wire becomes loose, cut or fails to give a connection to the motor.

The world of "what if"
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
wizzzard11 said:
I was under the impression that the extra ground wire that we always terminate to the cold water line acts as a backup ground if the ground in the wire becomes loose, cut or fails to give a connection to the motor.
That would seem to fly in the face of 300.3(B).

300.3(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).
The purpose of the lug is for equipotential bonding, not for a redundant ground-fault-current return path.

I too would like to see some manufacturer instructions that call for a #8 conductor run directly to the service.

680.26(A), FPN: The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor shall not be required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode.
The NFPA does not think that such a connection is necessary (680.26(B)(4) notwithstanding).
 

scwirenut

Senior Member
I think the confusion is that the instructions (on most all I have seen) say that a EGG must be used on tub and "if a suitable one is not available" offers the example (in illustration) of running a conductor to panel. or some say
"one method of achieving this" followed by illustration, alot of inspectors go no further than seeing this illustration (without carefully reading) and demanding conductor ran as shown . I have never ran a green conductor to panel and never will................
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
j_erickson said:
Interesting. Who reads the instructions. :D

Going off the op`s subject and to vanity lights.Our inspectors go strickly by manufactureres instructions.One inspector found a pamphlet from a standard vanity strip that showed a box behind the fixture and tagged every final after that for no box just a nm connector on the strip light.So some do read the handy dan literature that comes with things.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
allenwayne said:
One inspector found a pamphlet from a standard vanity strip...
I've got to ask: How? Did he go dumpster diving, or...?

...that showed a box behind the fixture and tagged every final after that for no box just a nm connector on the strip light.
Rightfully so. Ahem, why weren't the installers cutting in boxes, if the light's instructions required a box? ;)

The problem I had with some lights is that they were excruciatingly specific on what box was supposed to be used. The one I had in mind called for an octagonal metal box securely fastened to framing. That's a bit tricky to accomodate on the trim, when we stubbed out expecting a vanity that could be used as it's own outlet box.

I always used to gripe about the folks who would install boxes in the walls at rough, because it seemed that they would never hit the mark as precisely as I could at trim. But over time, given the requirements (some very justified) for an extremely secure box by some of the lights, I started trying to rough in boxes myself. Better the light to be a little off center or a little higher than I would have liked, than for it to fall out of the wall. :)
 

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
georgestolz said:
I started trying to rough in boxes myself. Better the light to be a little off center or a little higher than I would have liked, than for it to fall out of the wall. :)

I have gone to great lengths to get this dead on, near impossible, and had the plumber mount the sink off center inturn making me look like I was off not him. Oh well, plumber was the owners son. I must have been wrong couldn't be his kid.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
acrwc10 said:
I have gone to great lengths to get this dead on, near impossible, and had the plumber mount the sink off center inturn making me look like I was off not him. Oh well, plumber was the owners son. I must have been wrong couldn't be his kid.


Poke the cable out near center and cut the box in later. As long as the plumber doesn't run the vent line directly in the center of the sink you're OK.
 

hornetd

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician, Retired
Included in the listing or labeling

Included in the listing or labeling

augie47 said:
inspected two this week where the mfg. instructions required a #8 bond to service equipment. In our area, if the mfg. instructions require it, we require it base on 100-3.

If the instructions in question are not "included in the listing or labeling" they are not enforceable. Instructions not called out in the laboratory listing or printed on the same label as the laboratory listing mark are not "included in the listing or labeling." All the manufacturers want a silver bullet to slay the profit drinking vampire of alternate source parts. If the the instructions could include an enforceable prohibition on the use of other manufacturers parts then no manufacturer would pay a testing laboratory to recognize their parts in another manufacturers equipment. Since there are thousands of electrical products that bare the UR or equivalent recognition mark I can only conclude that the prohibition included in instructions not "included in the listing or labeling" is not enforceable.
 

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
infinity said:
Poke the cable out near center and cut the box in later. As long as the plumber doesn't run the vent line directly in the center of the sink you're OK.

that is the other favorite trick of the plumber vent dead center of the vanity.I love it when they do that and then jog it over once it is out of the upper plate.
 
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