TANDEM OR CHEATER BREAKERS

[iniskea]

I CAN NOT FIND THEM IN THE NEC AS I FOUND THREE IN A PANEL 15A AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABIT MUCH IF SOME ONE KNOWS WHERE IT IS IN THE CODE BOOK I WOULD APPRECIATE IT THANK YOU.

All panels are rated as to how many tandems can be installed and where in the panel they can be located.We still have # of circuits in a panel to be compliant

[electricman2]

The panel label will have a rating such as "16/24" which means it has 16 spaces and 8 tandem breakers are allowed for a total of 24 circuits.

[tonyi]

If the panel is designed for'em no prob. If its a twin that's been cobbed by removing a rejection device, then its a problem.

All to common to see those rejection tabs ripped out so one will fit in a non-slotted stab...

[hillbilly]

Siemens makes both kinds (Q series), circuit limiting and non-limiting. The non-limiting doesn't have the rejection tab and may be installed any place in the panel (up to the max).
steve

[nift21]

yeah...like square d makes a 40 slot 40 circuit panel, meaning no tandems, they also make a 30 slot 40 circuit panel.

Your allowed to have them where they fit i guess.
So the rule is diff with each panel

[ryan_618]

Originally posted by hillbilly:
Siemens makes both kinds (Q series), circuit limiting and non-limiting. The non-limiting doesn't have the rejection tab and may be installed any place in the panel (up to the max).
steve

Steve: The non-limitting breakers that I have seen have something written on them, like "for replacement only", or "for use in blah-blah-blah panels only". Does anyone have their hands on one that could verify this for me?

[hurk27]

Ryan
CL type tandem breakers are the only listed breakers that can be installed in a CL type panel. and you know when you have a CL type panel by the 200MB 30/40 model #. but before they devoleped CL type panel's they still allowed tandems in panels that was listed for them but they didn't have the rejection tab. and since these panels are still in use they are allowed to be repaired when these breaker's go bad. so the Non-CL type tandem's are only allowed to be installed in the older Non-CL type panels as replacement's only. If they are found in a newer CL panels it is a violation of listing. 110.3(A)(7)

As for the other note In a CL panel the tandems are only allowed to be installed in the spaces provided for them. No where else.

iniskea
The code section that you are looking for is:408.15

[ February 10, 2004, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

[ryan_618]

Thanks Wayne, I knew there was a limitation on them, but I couldn't remember exactly what.


Next time your in the electrical department at Lowe's or Depot, check out how many of these non-limitting breakers are being sold for the wrong use. I noticed that last time I was there...many empty boxes of them :(

[electricman2]

I have seen these Non-Cl tandem breakers at the big orange. Somebody who needs an extra circuit is not going to pay any attention to the "for replacement only" If will fit they will use it. :(