8-3 NM-B for hot tubs?

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iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Micheal that is also an NEC violation.

It may well be standard procedure in your area but that does not change the fact that the NEC does not allow NM in a wet location.

Inside a conduit is not a 'location'

NM that is outside is in a wet location regardless of the conduit.
 

mpd

Senior Member
thats a good attitude, your work is not NEC compliant but as long as long as the inspector passes you and your competition who cares
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Minuteman said:
As long as the AHJ approves it for my competition to do it, I will do it.

That is entirely up to you, its' your license, your name, your livelihood.

However as this an NEC forum and not a 'what can I get away with forum' I feel obligated to pass along the actual NEC requirements.
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
mpd said:
thats a good attitude, your work is not NEC compliant but as long as long as the inspector passes you and your competition who cares

Is in not possible that you are wrong? Article 334 deals with NM, NMC and NMS. I have not seen a reference for type NM-B.
 

roger

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Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Michael. the construction criteria has nothing to do with the allowed ampacity which is limited to 60?C conductors.

Here is what Southwire has to say about their NM-B


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Southwire's Romex ?[/FONT] SIMpullTM Type NM-B (nonmetallic-sheathed cable) may be used for both exposed and concealed work in normally dry locations at temperatures not to exceed 90?C (with ampacity limited to that for 60?C conductors) as specified in the National Electrical Code1. NM-B cable is primarily used in residential wiring as branch circuits for outlets, switches, and other loads. NM-B cable may be run in air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are not subject to excessive moisture or dampness. Voltage rating for NM-B cable is 600 volts.​


and


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]+Ampacity per 310.15 and 334.80, National Electrical Code, 2005 edition.
NOTE: Jacket thickness for all NM-B cable is 30 mils.
*Color Code for 2/2 Conductor Cable is Black, White, Red, and White with Red Stripe.
**Color Code for 4 Conductor Cable is Black, White, Red, and Blue.
[/FONT]

Roger




 

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Cavie said:
MPD 680.42 (C) says you can

Be careful how you word that considering all the issues that have come up in this thread.

680.42 (C) allows the use of NM inside a dwelling unit to supply an outdoor hot tub.

It does not allow NM to be used in a wet location.

It does not allow 8 AWG NM to be protected at 50 amps.

It does not allow us to ignore any listing or labeling included with the unit.
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
On the one hand - I could listen to a few self proclaimed experts with nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon, than to argue about something that they have miss read.

On the other hand - I could do what is approved by the AHJ's in SEVERAL local jurisdictions (using 1999, 2002, and 2005 code cycles) as well as an industry standard in my area.

Hmmmm?
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Minuteman said:
On the one hand - I could listen to a few self proclaimed experts with nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon, than to argue about something that they have miss read.

And who might that be?

Minuteman said:
On the other hand - I could do what is approved by the AHJ's in SEVERAL local jurisdictions (using 1999, 2002, and 2005 code cycles) as well as an industry standard in my area.

And it apears as though these AHJ's have either not bothered to read the codes they are supposed to be enfocing, do not understand them, or they have simply miss read them. Hmmmm!!!!!! back at you.

Michael, you have seen the information from a manufacturer, what more do you need?

Your ill informed inspectors are in error, you can do what is right and code, or get by with what they allow you to get away with, what ever you choose is your business.

Taking cheap shots at others is not necessary is it?


Roger
 
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suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Minuteman said:
Here I go again. I installed 4 above ground hottubs this month. ALL with 8/3 NM-B. ALL permitted and inspected. ALL without a #6 ground or equipotential grid.

Connect the 8/3 to a 50 amp breaker, run it across the attic, drop it down a 1" PVC into a small panel. The panel has a 2P30 amp and a 2P20 amp GFCI breakers. Carflex over to the tub with 2 #10 ungrounded, 1 #10 grounded, 1 #10 EGC and 2 #12 ungrounded. Pick up a check and boogie!

You've violated even more rules. Because you ran to a panel, this is now a pool feeder. See 680.25 to find out what all you've violated (must be totally in conduit, must have an insulated not just covered grounding wire). Your inspectors are either ignorant, trusting rubber stampers, or else you have local rules that toss out most of the NEC. Your carflex is probably over the 6' limit too...
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Minuteman said:
You guys crack me up. 680.25 has nothing to do with above ground packaged spas. You have no clue what you are talking about about, yet, it does not stop you.

680.42 Outdoor Installations. A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.

NEC 680.25 is in Part II.
 
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