Ceiling lights in Jersey

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kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Gang:

I have a friend in New Jersey who is getting some remodeling done on her house. The electrician is telling her that ceiling lights are required in bedrooms, and that wall-switched controlled outlets are not up to code; here is the text of the message I received:

---- Begin Forwarded Message ----

ken, are electric codes pretty much the same all over? i was told by contractor that i had to have a wall switch that operated a CEILING MOUNTED lite in each room
in other words my lamps that work off wall switches are not 'up to code'
it sounds weird to me... anyways, i am beyond tired, contractor has been great after initial worry but this stuff he was told sounds like BS to me....

---- End Forwarded Message ----

I believe that extra cost is being forced upon my friend here, and they are hiding behind the Code as their reasoning for this. Can some of you contractors that work in New Jersey comment on this please?

Edit to add: This is a single family dwelling located in South Plainfield.

 
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Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I think they might have a local code requiring the ceiling light.I rather dought that they would not also in addition to it permit a switched receptacle.She could simply call the chief electrical inspector in her town to see if it was a local issue
 

emahler

Senior Member
not in the national code here. if it's local, AHJ is exceeding his authority in my opinion.

However, my best guess, the EC doing the work doesn't know what the code book looks like. And that is what he was "taught" by the guy he used to work for.

I've learned that made "code requirements" are simply ipsofacto (god I like using that word) requirements cause nobody bothered to find out if the guy they learned from knew what he was talking about.

Tell her to have the guy cite her the Article and Section in writing. Whether it be local or not. I call BS and tell him to get lost....
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
emahler said:
not in the national code here. if it's local, AHJ is exceeding his authority in my opinion.

However, my best guess, the EC doing the work doesn't know what the code book looks like. And that is what he was "taught" by the guy he used to work for.

I've learned that made "code requirements" are simply ipsofacto (god I like using that word) requirements cause nobody bothered to find out if the guy they learned from knew what he was talking about.

Tell her to have the guy cite her the Article and Section in writing. Whether it be local or not. I call BS and tell him to get lost....

Thats getting her no place but a pissed off contractor.Do it the easy way and call the inspector.If its a local thing he can exsplain it better.Now if the inspector doesnt back this so called code up then chances are she hired the wrong guy.In the middle of a job is not a good time to fire him.Who here would even touch that job ?
 

emahler

Senior Member
i just have zero patience these days for this stuff. you are correct, but I think the EC is incompetent. But again, I have zero patience these days for this stuff.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
A ceiling lighting outlet is not required in New Jersey if the there is a switch controlled receptacle. There are no "local codes" that would require this.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
kbsparky said:
Gang:

I have a friend in New Jersey who is getting some remodeling done on her house. The electrician is telling her that ceiling lights are required in bedrooms, and that wall-switched controlled outlets are not up to code...
I'm leaning towards the emahler argument ...the man's incompetant.
If by some small miracle what the "contractor" says is true ....I have 90+ t'house units that are about to torn apart - and an inspector about to have serious questions asked of him....BUT the reality is (as Infinity stated), a CEILING fixture is NOT required in a bedroom in NJ. (Period).

I would have your friend "check-out" said ELECTRICAL contractor here:
Online Services ~ Licensee Directory
She will need to know at least 2 letters from his last name at a minimum.

Now if said contractor is a GENERAL contractor, his name WILL NOT appear in the above search - and the GC will be in violation on NJ State law (pursue as you/she feel appropiate - of course i can supply a link to a State site for help ;) ).
As a GC, he MUST be registered with State - as detailed here:
Home Improvement Contractor
[ NOTICE TO CONTRACTORS PLEASE READ THIS NOTICE CAREFULLY TO ENSURE FULL COMPLIANCE]

Your friend CAN search the database to see if this person is a registered Home Improvement COntractor here:
[Registered Home Improvement Contractors] ...again, 2 letter minimum for a search.


Both of these links (and more) can be seen here:
[Notice of Implementation of Home Improvement Contractor Registration Regulations]


(Thank God the links work again :) )

Like emahler ~ my tolerence for wanna-be's is at an all time low.



kbsparky said:
Edit to add: This is a single family dwelling located in South Plainfield.
Right in my neck of the woods ;)
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
infinity said:
A ceiling lighting outlet is not required in New Jersey if the there is a switch controlled receptacle. There are no "local codes" that would require this.

This puts here in a bad spot.Perhaps she could invite him to join this forum or send a copy of this post and leave him a nice way out to back down.Lets give him the dought that he just misunderstands the code.
 

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Jim W in Tampa said:
This puts here in a bad spot.Perhaps she could invite him to join this forum or send a copy of this post and leave him a nice way out to back down.Lets give him the dought that he just misunderstands the code.
It was my intention to forward her the link of this thread, so she could have some "ammo" to counter the claim of the EC. Apparently, she is dealing with a GC, who is passing along the 2nd hand info from the offending EC.

Thanks again for the comments. :smile:
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
kbsparky said:
Apparently, she is dealing with a GC, who is passing along the 2nd hand info from the offending EC.

Thanks again for the comments. :smile:
More comments....


The plot thickens...
Here is what I see:

The GC asks the EC if he can put a light/CF in the bdrm. The EC says sure I can. The GC then appraoches the HO and makes the wild claim about it being a "requirement".

Why?

Because the GC can make a few bucks padding the EC's estimate of the add/change/move total just by "informing" the HO of the "requirement" and w/o actually lifting a finger.
 

Bob NH

Senior Member
I would ask the contractor, or whoever is dealing with the homeowner, to put the instruction in writing. Then, I would take that writing to licensing officials and charge the contractor with fraud.

If the customer is confident of the rule, then just politely say no. If the contractor insists, then it is really fraud.
 

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
The plot thickens ....

The plot thickens ....

Well, so far your comments are helping. I forwarded the link for the thread, BUT --->

She now tells me:

...the local inspector is the one who told my contractor that i was required to have ceiling lights that worked off of switches in the living room and the 3 bedrooms ( one is my office) the kitchen, dining and baths have ceiling lights.

The contractor is not trying to screw me over here, could it be he misunderstood something the inspector said?....

So now I have to ask --- is the BUILDING INSPECTOR the one talking here, or the ELECTRICAL inspector?

Thanks for all your comments so far :)



 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
In addition to what Celtic and Infinity have posted take note of the folowing info as it may be helpful :

State of New Jersey
Dept. of Community Affairs
Office of Regulatory Affairs
101 South Broad Street
PO Box 818
Trenton, NJ 08626-0818
Tel : 609-984-7768
Fax : 609-984-7718

Suzanne Borek in code enforcement is the person you want to contact. She is extrememly knowledgable about the NEC and local codes. I'm not sure she would be able to intervene on your behalf as she is more than likely backed up with work.

Before contacting Suzanne Borek I would first contact the electrical inspector in the township and ask whether this requirement is part of a local ordanance and if so, then ask whether the DCA will back him up on this. Then I would also let the EC and GC know that you have this info and are prepared to go to this level of inquiry. See what happens.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
It seems obvious that someone has mistakenly come up with a requirement that doesn't' exist. Sounds like simple misinformation. I agree with Goldstar. Contact Suzanne and pass along her response to the guy making up this false requirement.
 

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Another thing to keep in mind: here in NJ we have the "rehab code", which conviently provides us with an "out" in situations like this. An existing home does not necessarily need to be brought up to code. So if there was a requirement for switched ceiling outlets, which there isn't, the homeowner may be able to use the rehab code to get around it.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
kbsparky said:
Well, so far your comments are helping. I forwarded the link for the thread, BUT --->

She now tells me:

...the local inspector is the one who told my contractor that i was required to have ceiling lights that worked off of switches in the living room and the 3 bedrooms ( one is my office) the kitchen, dining and baths have ceiling lights.

The contractor is not trying to screw me over here, could it be he misunderstood something the inspector said?....

So now I have to ask --- is the BUILDING INSPECTOR the one talking here, or the ELECTRICAL inspector?

Thanks for all your comments so far :)




A few simple steps here will resolve this fast.
call this inspector.Don't be in a foul mood just ask nicely for him to him to help you out with your confusion.If he says its code then ask if if its NEC or a local ammendment.If he says its either one ask for the number of the violation.If its local code ask to see a copy (its required by law).If this method fails (it shouldn't) go to his chief.If neither will help out then take it to the next higher level.

One major problem i am seeing here is the info is being sent thru too many people and we all know how that changes things.Please keep us up to date.I for one love a good fight with inspectors.LOL.Most are good guys but a few need fired.
 
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