Home Inspector and pendant lights over tub

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Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
A Home Impector freind which is also a GC and a client of mine, called and asked me install a new HVL and then two pancake box's for pendants over a small island in a bath. Got there and the pendant lights and this small island are adjacent to the tub. So I told him that it wouldnt fly and perhaps 4in recessed cans would be the answer instead of the pendants for taks lighting.......So, then I got to thinking....Will these recessed light trims need to be non metalic shower trims? they are not directly over the tub, but adjacent to, and they wont quite be 8ft .....?????
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I believe 410.10(D) has the answer. Here is part of that article

Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.

If the can is not over the tub or shower don't worry about it. Good to go.
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
I believe 410.10(D) has the answer. Here is part of that article



If the can is not over the tub or shower don't worry about it. Good to go.

I took a very quick glance at (410.?? something) yesterday and noticed a cartoon in my 08 handbook that showed a 3ft hortizontal extension of the tub perimeter ...So it looked like to me it was 8ft high and 3ft from any open side of the tub?? is this wrong??
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I took a very quick glance at (410.?? something) yesterday and noticed a cartoon in my 08 handbook that showed a 3ft hortizontal extension of the tub perimeter ...So it looked like to me it was 8ft high and 3ft from any open side of the tub?? is this wrong??


That is for pendents. Here is the art.

(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires, chain-, cable-, or cord-suspended luminaires, lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the space directly over the tub or shower stall. Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If the can is not subject to shower spray then a damp location trim can be used. That would apply within or outside of the 3' X 8" tub zone. The pendants can only be installed if they're outside of the 3' X 8' zone.
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
If the can is not subject to shower spray then a damp location trim can be used. That would apply within or outside of the 3' X 8" tub zone. The pendants can only be installed if they're outside of the 3' X 8' zone.

Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.

Sorry I miss read that....so in my case there is no shower head...so must be marked for damp locations, but not wet locations, correct?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Sorry I miss read that....so in my case there is no shower head...so must be marked for damp locations, but not wet locations, correct?

IMO, No this is not correct

If the can is not subject to shower spray then a damp location trim can be used. That would apply within or outside of the 3' X 8" tub zone. The pendants can only be installed if they're outside of the 3' X 8' zone.

I agree with part of this. Where does it say that a can must be damp location rated if it is installed outside the tub or shower stall. It says it must be damp location rated within the shower or tub actual dimension.

I agree with the pendent part, etc zone area but not with a can.

This is a moot point since every can I ever saw is damp location rated anyway.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.

Sorry I miss read that....so in my case there is no shower head...so must be marked for damp locations, but not wet locations, correct?

Yes if you're under the 2008 NEC. Under the 2005 the wording inadvertently included the 3' zone out from the tubs' edge. This wording has been removed in the 2008.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Where does it say that a can must be damp location rated if it is installed outside the tub or shower stall. It says it must be damp location rated within the shower or tub actual dimension.


It doesn't. There are two types of trims, wet and damp. If a wet is not required then a damp can be used. ;)
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
I can see it now, mom says..."I cant see my magazine setting on the pot because the light is burn'd out"....dad, taking a bath, stands up in the bath water to screw in a new bulb. Mom gets rich from life insurance policy.....

I guess it should be changed to GFI protection as well.....:rolleyes:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I can see it now, mom says..."I cant see my magazine setting on the pot because the light is burn'd out"....dad, taking a bath, stands up in the bath water to screw in a new bulb. Mom gets rich from life insurance policy.....

I guess it should be changed to GFI protection as well.....:rolleyes:

Well that is the theory of evolution. The strong survive. :D
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Yes I agree under the 2008 but not the 2005, but I thought that we were talking about recessed cans? :wink:

We were but your earlier statement was misleading since the fact that all cans are not necessarily damp location rated and I wanted to make sure the op didn't think it had to be damp location rated outside the tub.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord connected
luminaires (fixtures), chain-, cable-, or cordsuspended-
luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or
ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a
zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft)
vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall
threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the
zone directly over the tub or shower stall. Luminaires
(lighting fixtures) located in this zone shall be listed for
damp locations, or listed for wet locations where subject to
shower spray.

IE: If it is one of the luminaries listed it can't be in the all encompassing zone, if it is one that is allowed to be within the all encompassing zone then it must meet the last sentence of the requirement to be within that zone....atleast thats how I read it....so surface mounted luminare within the encompassing zone 3' x 8' would need to be damp location rated...( unless of course it is subject to shower spray inside the stall and what not...)

( 2005 NEC )
 
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