Do I have to upgrade to AFCI's?

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al hildenbrand

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Minnesota
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
The classic, for me, is embodied in replacing a single pole snap switch in a wall case in a dwelling bedroom with a combination receptacle / switch.

The wall case is not changed.

The hole in the wall is not changed.

The receptacle is new and it is an outlet that is new. . .

My AHJ will assure me that an AFCI is required for this new outlet in the bed extended off the existing branch circuit.
 

charlie b

Moderator
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Location
Lockport, IL
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Retired Electrical Engineer
LarryFine said:
What if we relocate a hole? Say a customer moves the dining room table and wants the chandelier recentered over the table. New box? New hole? New outlet? AFCI?
Great set of sample issues, Larry. And tough to answer. But I think you were on a roll, and your momentum carried you out of the bedroom for this example. ;)

Back to your list: I don't think an AFCI should be required for any of those four tasks. I also think this is going to boil down to an AHJ call.
 
I called the NFPA last month to ask them this example: If I add a receptacle to an existing circuit in the bedroom and their response was yes, that new outlet would have to be afci protected, not every other outlet. He also said that it was no different than adding an outlet in the bathroom, the new bathroom outlet would be required to be gfci protected. Out here in California we are still on the 2002 NEC. The use of an afci receptacle to protect down-stream outlets is not technically acceptable at this time as it shows in the 2005 NEC.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
McDowellb said:
it was no different than adding an outlet in the bathroom, the new bathroom outlet would be required to be gfci protected.
That's a great example of my point.
Larry Fine said:
Think about it, though. There are six recessed lights in a bedroom. They want one more added, and we have to change the breaker. Seems silly to me.
If the six recessed lights are old non-thermal protected units, then, by your logic, the new recessed light should be exempt from any part of 410.64 that isn't included in the old recessed lights. Thermal protection. . .we don't need no stinkin' thermal protection.
Larry Fine said:
What if we replace a fixture? No new outlet, right? What if we remove a fixture and install a fan. Needs a new box. Still not a new outlet, right? Same hole is why?
You said it. There is no new outlet. The outlet is not the hole, nor the box, rather, it is the transition from the building wire to the fixture wire..therefor, no AFCI if there is no new outlet.
Larry Fine said:
What if we relocate a hole? Say a customer moves the dining room table and wants the chandelier re-centered over the table. New box? New hole? New outlet? AFCI?
If I can get at the cable going to the existing lighting outlet, loosen it and relocate it, remove the old ceiling box, and install the luminaire on the end of the same cable, then, for me, that's not a new outlet and, to me, there's no AFCI required, but my AHJ would ultimately have to rule on that one.
Larry Fine said:
Suppose we relocate a receptacle? If we mount a plasma TV, new receptacle fed from one below it. Does AFCI need depend on whether we blank the old receptacle box?
Here, a new length of cable is added. Regardless of whether the old location is blanked, the receptacle at the plasma TV is new. . .new outlet in a bed requires a circuit protected by an AFCI.
 

Mike03a3

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
cpal said:
Before I get heat I understand that the NEC is not retro in it's application, but I am curious. How many other jurisdictations have requirements that would impact a circuit extension such as we have been discussing??

Charlie

In my part of Northern Virginia any extension of an existing bedroom branch circuit requires the circuit be protected by an AFCI. So, the answer to OP's question is "no" since he was replacing an existing receptacle. If he was adding one, or any other outlet, in a bedroom then the answer would have been "yes".

Mike
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
Okay, talked to a inspector about this, and here is how they look at it. If the wall is not opened and the existing circuit was installed and inspected under a different code cycle, different methods & material, then they do not require the extended circuit to be AFCI protected.

If the walls are opened or the project covers more than 50% of the room or the house, than the circuit has to be brought up to the current code cycle.

There is no comparison to GFCI with AFCI, since there is no way to add AFCI protection to "just" the new outlet.
 
Minuteman said:
Okay, talked to a inspector about this, and here is how they look at it. If the wall is not opened and the existing circuit was installed and inspected under a different code cycle, different methods & material, then they do not require the extended circuit to be AFCI protected.

If the walls are opened or the project covers more than 50% of the room or the house, than the circuit has to be brought up to the current code cycle.

There is no comparison to GFCI with AFCI, since there is no way to add AFCI protection to "just" the new outlet.
There is a comparison. GFCI's originally came as breakers only. The code is quite clear on this. It says all bedroom branch circuits shall be arc-fault protected. I got that answer to your exact example from the code making panel at NFPA. If you don't believe me call them. And besides, there are "just" Arc-fault outlets look at levitons web site. At this time (2002 NEC) does not allow the receptacle as the arc-fault protection. The code states entire circuit. If your inspector chooses to allow what you did that is ok, they are the AHJ.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
McDowellb said:
there are "just" Arc-fault outlets look at levitons web site.
I'm coming up empty. Maybe you could post a link or a model number. The new L100 catalog is not helping me.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Mr. McDowell,

After going through the July / August Online Version of the IAEI News I can't find anything that shows or talks about a Leviton AFCI device.

Again, does the literature you are referencing include a part or model number? Are you sure it is Leviton?

Is the July / August issue the issue you meant when you said
McDowellb said:
They are in this months IAEI magazine.

Maybe someone can scan in the information, if anyone else noted what Mr. McDowell is alluding to?
 
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