Top-Secret Task Force

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al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Oh, yeah. I just remembered a fourth nugget. </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All hot conductors in a multiwire circuit must be disconnected with a single operation of the OCPD.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Edit to add: That's for ALL multiwire circuits. Period.

[ January 21, 2006, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

All hot conductors in a multiwire circuit must be disconnected with a single operation of the OCPD.
Sounds like retaliation against the fuse manufacturers by the breaker manufacturers for 700.27 and 701.17.
Don
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by bphgravity:
Mark Ode will be in town next weekend and I will be going out to dinner with him after his seminar. I hope he will let us in on some of the juicier topics that he is aware of!
Tell him Hi for me, would you? And tell him thanks for rejecting ALL of my proposals to panel 4 LOL.
 

electricman2

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
All hot conductors in a multiwire circuit must be disconnected with a single operation of the OCPD.
Edit to add: That's for ALL multiwire circuits. Period.
I will do that at gunpoint :D
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

None of this is solid at this time. It is only based on the "straw" votes taken at the panel meeting. The panel members have a number of weeks to submit their written vote. Many times this is not the same as the straw vote.
Don
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by electricman2:
Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
All hot conductors in a multiwire circuit must be disconnected with a single operation of the OCPD.
Edit to add: That's for ALL multiwire circuits. Period.
I will do that at gunpoint :D
Your gun, or his? ;)
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19
The panel members have a number of weeks to submit their written vote.
Yup. And then after the formal ballots are tallied, the Report On Proposals (ROP) is printed and released for Comments and yet another, the final, vote, and even a little back room dealing.

The way the fellow I spoke with framed it, is, this is the period for lots of discussion for all interested parties.

[ January 21, 2006, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

And then after the formal ballots are tallied, the Report On Proposals (ROP) is printed and released for Comments and yet another, the final, vote, and even a little back room dealing.
Actually the final vote is by the NFPA membership at the May meeting, and even then the results can be overturned by the NFPA Standards Council or in some cases by the courts.
Don
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by ryan_618:
For example, the definition of ground is being changed to simply be "the earth". I think that is good. We didn't talk a lot of details about it, however.
I was told by a member of CMP 3 that they had proposal to do the same thing with 300.5(J) Ground Movement Change to read Earth Movement
 
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by ryan_618:
I just had a 90 minute phone conversation with Mike regarding the 2008 cycle. It seems that all of the radical changes that people were expecting is not going to happen, however, some intersting things have occured. For example, the" definition of ground is being changed to simply be "the earth". I think that is good. We didn't talk a lot of details about it, however.

But...are you ready for this? Mike came up with an idea and I wrote a proposal to delete the allowance of the nuetral to bond a remote structure. In other words, delete 250.32(B)(2) and all references to it.......it passed.
 
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Earth vs ground:
I served my apprenticeship in England 1947/1954. They use the expressions: earthing conductor, earth return, earth potential etc. I really do not understand why we have to change ground to earth when we in the trade know full well what we mean by ground conductor and grounded conductor. Some of us know that one of those is the neutral! It's the white one, I think, or maybe it's grey or gray, while in UK the neutral is black and white is a phase conductor. I know we all talk English, or some of us do, but that's no reason to copy their wierd terminology. If we allow this to happen I can see the 2011 NEC changing our color (colour) coding too!!
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by bill talbot:
Earth vs ground:
I really do not understand why we have to change ground to earth when we in the trade know full well what we mean by ground conductor and grounded conductor.
REally? Look at the definition of groundnig conductor and tell me what it means.
 

joe tedesco

Senior Member
Re: Top-Secret Task Force

http://www.local6.com/money/7302637/detail.html

'Bizarre' Electrocution Prompts Home Builder Lawsuit

POSTED: 5:37 pm EST February 21, 2006
UPDATED: 5:24 pm EST February 24, 2006

One of the nation's largest home builders, its electrical subcontractors and a Central Florida county have been named in a wrongful death lawsuit after an appliance deliveryman was electrocuted in a "bizarre accident," according to a Problem Solvers investigation.

Deliveryman Rafael Ugalde died while on the job at 2777 Shearwater St. in Lennar's Lost Lake Reserve in Clermont, Fla.

Ugalde was electrocuted even though power to the room had been turned off, the report said.

"Wires behind a hallway wall hold the key to the bizarre accident that killed Ugalde," Problem Solver Mike Holfeld said.

Attorney O.B. Samuel, who has documented the investigation into Ugalde's death, said a drywall screw had been fired through the yellow wire casing, piercing the hot wire inside and the metal stud. That created a giant power circuit that electrified the house, according to the report.






"When they tore down the wall, it was quite obvious what had happened," Samuel said.

An electrical subcontractor for the Lennar project found 110 volts flowing through the screws of the room's mirror, the report said.

"That discovery is important because Rafael Ugalde was electrocuted as he hooked the dryer hose to a vent," Holfeld said.

The medical examiner noted that the metal duct and vent tested positive for 110 volts, according to the report.

Under state code, the electric wires should have been bundled with a plastic strap or metal clip. However, there was no evidence the wires were ever bundled.

Local 6 News also learned that Ugalde's shoes were wet while he was in the structure yet he never touched an outlet.





"Five months later and no one has accepted responsibility for the fatal mistake," Holfeld said.

"Well, then this story changes because we're not talking about an accident, we're talking murder," Lisa Ugalde said.

The lawsuit's trail of blame includes the Lake County building inspector.

Documents obtained by Local 6 showed an inspector approved the electrical wiring on Sept. 6, 14 days before Ugalde was electrocuted.

"No denials were issued for the wiring," Holfeld said. "Ironically, the final approval was issued two weeks after Ugalde died."

The lawsuit is expected to be filed this week.

An attorney for Lennar Homes told Local 6 News that new safety protocols have been put in place since the accident. The company said it is confident that the rest of the homes in the subdivision are safe.

"Lake County and the electrical subcontractors are not talking," Holfeld said. "So, the question remains, who made the mistake? And, who will a jury hold accountable?"

Watch Local 6 News for more on this story
 
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