USE-2 in PVC Schedule 40 conduit

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petersonra

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Northern illinois
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engineer
th111447 said:
Roger and Norb thanks for your help. A couple of last questions. So 1/0 XHHW Aluminum is the recommendation and this has to be conduit, correct? I'm trying to ensure it's resistant to moisture/water and verifying it's not a direct burial wire. Also, 2 inch conduit is plenty large enough for this wire (3 conductor).

What? No ground?
 

roger

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Fl
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petersonra said:
What? No ground?

250.32 (B)(2) He didn't say he was taking any other metallic piping or conductors (phone, data, coax, etc...) to the barn.

Roger
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
th111447 said:
I'd prefer to keep the URD calbe I have and just put it in conduit versus the hassle of returning it. If it doesn't cause any issues, I'll do it. I just read some other posts that stated USE-2 rated only wire could not be installed in conduit because of the heat it generates. I was wondering if someone had made a mistake because I know it can not be run inside a building in conduit? Our local building inspector stated it should not be in conduit but I wanted to know why and he had no logical reason. The funny thing is they don't inspect the trench so you could really do what you want?

I've used URD many times... it's not a problem...
 
Your conduit fill could be an issue. In a previous thread, someone said that urd is considered a cable assembly (by UL), thus you need to measure the largest diameter of the whole triplexed bundle and use that as your conductor size - it may be well within the limit - do the math. That said, we pull urd in pipe all the time. I would also argue that URD can be used indoors if it has the RHH stamp on it, which I assume most if not all URD does
 

th111447

Member
Guys I really appreciate all the feedback. I'm hearing the answers I was hoping for. A couple responses to your questions:

Volt102
Although the OP never stated if he had intentions on this; Did he intend to use USE inside of the building?

No I have no plans to use it inside building. It will run from 100 amp sub-panel in barn to 100 amp breaker in main panel thru an LB.

Roger
250.32 (B)(2) He didn't say he was taking any other metallic piping or conductors (phone, data, coax, etc...) to the barn

I was planning to run phone, data and coax in 1 inch conduit too. I'm running three conductor wire from main to sub and driving ground rod at barn. Inspector stated to treat the sub like a main and bond the neutral and the ground.

Any issues?
 

volt102

Senior Member
Location
New Hampshire
th111447 said:
No I have no plans to use it inside building. It will run from 100 amp sub-panel in barn to 100 amp breaker in main panel thru an LB.

Now I am confused, it is in a barn, but not indoors?

Jim
New Hampshire
 

th111447

Member
Jim said
Now I am confused, it is in a barn, but not indoors?

Jim the USE-2 will run from the main panel in the house to the pole barn sub-panel which is located inside the barn. The cable is running from main panel to sub panel in barn. It will be in conduit inside the barn connecting to the sub-panel and connected to the main via an LB. Does this answer your question?
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
If you want to use the wire you have, and want the option of conduit to change or upgrade it later, direct bury the cable, and just install conduit in the same trench.
 

roger

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th111447 said:
I was planning to run phone, data and coax in 1 inch conduit too. I'm running three conductor wire from main to sub and driving ground rod at barn. Inspector stated to treat the sub like a main and bond the neutral and the ground.

Any issues?

Now you will need the 4th wire (EGC)

250.32 Buildings or Structures Supplied by Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s)

(B) Grounded Systems For a grounded system at the separate building or structure, the connection to the grounding electrode and grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded shall comply with either 250.32(B)(1) or (B)(2).

(1) Equipment Grounding Conductor An equipment grounding conductor as described in 250.118 shall be run with the supply conductors and connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s). The equipment grounding conductor shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The equipment grounding conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.122. Any installed grounded conductor shall not be connected to the equipment grounding conductor or to the grounding electrode(s).

(2) Grounded Conductor Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, (2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in each building or structure involved, and (3) ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the supply side of the feeder(s), the grounded conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The size of the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of either of the following:
(1) That required by 220.61
(2) That required by 250.122

Your LV wires will be bonded at both ends so you can not 250.32(B)(2), you will have to install an EGC.

Roger
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
The coax will be the bonding path that will require the 4 wire run with the feeder. The data and phone will not have a path that triggers the 4th wire rule unless they have a metal shield. Just the fact that they are terminated on protectors at both ends does not trigger the 4th wire rule. The rule only applies where there is a continuous metallic path between the buildings that is bonded at both ends.
Don
 

augie47

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Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Urd

Urd

georgestolz said:
But URD slides in Oh! So nice. :D
George:
No one has mentioned this, and I may be mistaken (seems I am more often now that I'm officially ancient), but is URD not a "covered" conductor for utility use and technically not an insulated conductor allowable under NEC rules?
Know its used in applications like this, but believe its not "code"
 

th111447

Member
Guys thanks for the feedback. I'm going to take back the USE-2 wire and get 1/0 XHHW wire and I'm also going to get a #2 ground to pull as a fourth conductor. For $20 more it's not worth the debate for pulling the fourth conductor.

So the new plan is to run 1/0 XHHW 110 ft from the house main panel to the Pole Barn 100 amp sub-panel. Since I'm running the fourth conductor, I will isolate the neutral and the ground and throw away the bonding screw. I'll also drive a ground rod at the pole and ground the ground bar of the sub-panel to the ground rod. Am I on the right track now?

Thanks
again
 

A/A Fuel GTX

Senior Member
Location
WI & AZ
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Electrician
don_resqcapt19 said:
The coax will be the bonding path that will require the 4 wire run with the feeder. The rule only applies where there is a continuous metallic path between the buildings that is bonded at both ends.
Don


Don......I know the coax is bonded at the service point of the main building but I never see the coax bonded again at a second building. The installs I see just run the RG6 to an ungrounded splitter in the second building and go from there. In that scenario would the coax still be considered a parallel path? If so, how?
 
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