Changing breaker live

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Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
Schedule a "After Hours" shut down. Dump the main,change the breaker,
go home,snuggle up to your wife/girlfriend, and vent how stressfull your
day was.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
How about praticable? That is a uncommon word the code likes to throw around...

It is too bad that this word is uncommon to many people.

Given the basic definitions:
Practical - has been done before, should be able to be repeated.
Practicable - has not been done before, in theory it might work

My additional basic definitions agree with those of Bob's
Impractical - has been done before but might not be able to be repeated
Impracticable - has not been done before, in theory it won't work
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
I have bolted big mains on to live bus a few times.

I will never do it again unless lives are in imminent mortal danger (which I suppose is a highly unlikely situation).

Hmmm....30 minute shut down or a 48 hour shutdown and a funeral? You make the call.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
My boss says I'm crazy to change that breaker with the panel live and that we shoud shut down the main feeing the bldg to kill our panel, then change the breaker


Best stay working at this shop, your boss soulds like a good one!

Read the thread -

Like they say, there are no old, bold, electricians.

I know from the people in here that one happens to be a breaker expert, not to mention that there is over 100 years worth of experience trying to look out for you too.
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
Some on here would absolutely argue black was white to the bitter death I do believe. :D

I argue like that, and I will probably be divorced soon because of it. I also have changed many breakers hot. I'm glad I am alive to say I was wrong. Nothing bad has happened to me, I guess I'm lucky (or like I used to think, good :smile:). Now I know, it's lucky.

No one is tag teaming you. It's hard to change your ways when nothing bad has happened to you. Everyone is just trying to save you from getting caught in a life threatening position. It's always fine until something goes wrong, then it's too late and bad things do happen.

Work to live.
 

daleuger

Senior Member
Location
earth
I argue like that, and I will probably be divorced soon because of it. I also have changed many breakers hot. I'm glad I am alive to say I was wrong. Nothing bad has happened to me, I guess I'm lucky (or like I used to think, good :smile:). Now I know, it's lucky.

No one is tag teaming you. It's hard to change your ways when nothing bad has happened to you. Everyone is just trying to save you from getting caught in a life threatening position. It's always fine until something goes wrong, then it's too late and bad things do happen.

Work to live.

That's what I was saying to begin with. Thank you. But you did read the part where I missed in the OP about it being a 400 A breaker? Most of the first page of this thread was a big misunderstanding and most of it my own fault.

I've changed out much smaller breakers than that with a live bus and being VERY VERY careful not to short anything out. Tell me I have a lack of "cajones" or whatever but no way would I be that bold with 400A. Of course when I was a 2nd and 3rd year I was also told to mess with 277 hot when it really wasn't necessary. I don't always do what I'm told though. :grin:
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Being a 400A Breaker has nothing at all to do with it, common misconception. There are 2 factors, available fault current and clearing time of the upstream protective device. When you are talking about a service from the utility those are both worst case senarios.

There are lots of deceased electricians that were being very careful not to short something out. De-energize it , always, no exceptions, OSHA requires it.
 

Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
I argue like that, and I will probably be divorced soon because of it. I also have changed many breakers hot. I'm glad I am alive to say I was wrong. Nothing bad has happened to me, I guess I'm lucky (or like I used to think, good :smile:). Now I know, it's lucky.

No one is tag teaming you. It's hard to change your ways when nothing bad has happened to you. Everyone is just trying to save you from getting caught in a life threatening position. It's always fine until something goes wrong, then it's too late and bad things do happen.

Work to live.

This is a great point. You know you never hear from the other side of the story:

"Hey my name is Jim, I decided it was more important to impress my boss than work safe. One day a hot panel exploded in my face while I was working on it. My wife a two infants miss me and are having a hard time getting by day to day.... but what the hell I feel like a real man!"
 

mivey

Senior Member
LOL :grin:

Back when you still took for granted water was wet?
Yes, but I have learned ANYTHING is fair game.:D I do like posting here as a good exercise because if you make a mistake, you are almost certain to get called on it. Keeps you on your toes.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Your boss said don't , it ends at that even if it was safe and its not. Let them pay to do this at night. I use to be one of them work it live guys, several years at this forum has changed my attitude also seen what happened to one of our men that thought it safe too. He was lucky and damage was at min but he could have been killed just as easy. Most companies will suggest you take the chance because they want a happy customer and really don't care about you.
 

rookie4now

Senior Member
I see, so all the electricians that have been killed doing hot work where simply not professionals and you are.

Yeah you should go for it and be man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHs14ZTo96M

Not sure where that came from. I never said I was more professional than anyone else. I also didn't say anything about "being a man" because it could be done live. I asked what other peoples opinions were so I could learn from them. Nonetheless, I appreciate your comments and all the others. I must say I have had my opinion changed as a result of reading these replies and some literature my boss gave me.

One fine point though. According to NFPA then, if you want to replace a circuit breaker, you have to shut down the panel? How many people power down the whole house/bldg. to change a breaker?
 

bpk

Senior Member
If you are starting out in the field then maybe you are a younger in age (as I am). You could probally get away with changing the breaker live without an accident, but if you continually do things over the course of your career the odds are against you and you might as well start acting safe now. That is how I rationalize things. You will probally change hundreds or more breakers in a career and then the chances of something bad happening are increased alot.
 

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
I agree, I would not change a 400A breaker hot. Just too dangerous. I have changed fuses in a 400A disconnect switch, but the only live parts were the jaws for the knife switch at the top of the enclosure. The switch was open. I would continue to do this.

Mark
 

daleuger

Senior Member
Location
earth
I agree, I would not change a 400A breaker hot. Just too dangerous. I have changed fuses in a 400A disconnect switch, but the only live parts were the jaws for the knife switch at the top of the enclosure. The switch was open. I would continue to do this.

Mark

How about landing wires on the load side of a disco with the line hot?
 

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
How about landing wires on the load side of a disco with the line hot?

Don't know. I guess I would have to see the equipment. The fused disconnects I'm talking about have an interlock so the door only opens after the switch is opened and the only live parts are a good distance (separated by the distance of the knives) above where the fuse is.

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this. I wear the proper PPE and try not to do things that are more dangerous than driving to work in the morning. However, I live in the DC area where driving on the Beltway could best be likened to Deathrace 2000 so it's all relative.

Be safe everyone,

Mark
 
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