Recessed lights

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marinesgt0411

Senior Member
Is there such a thing as a goof ring or extention for a recessed can light

situation is that another layer of drywall is to be added to cieling which means I will have to cut drywall around all the fixture to lower them by half inch the blown in insulation above cieling is going to get all over the place through the holes cut to lower the cans.
no there is not any adjustment on the recessed cans the rim of the can is now flush with the surface of cieling adding half inch drywall will put rim half inch recessed into ceiling more then the quarter inch which is allowed.

looking for a cleaner simple solution

trim has enough adjustment that lowering the cans are not required.it is the not being flush with the surface that requires them to be lowered

I know this sounds like a How to question but I would like some oppinions anyway Thank you
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
marinesgt0411 said:
adding half inch drywall will put rim half inch recessed into ceiling more then the quarter inch which is allowed.

Where did you get the 1/4" requirement from?

Is it a manufactures requirement?
 

Shockedby277v

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Since there is a second layer of drywall being added, why not just cut a huge hole where the cans are and rerough-in the existing cans to the second layers height. It might be cheaper than buying cheat rings, if there is any.
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
I am not sure I know what your asking? are the cans already installed? If not get a can that has an adjustment I use Juno cans and the can be lowered about 1" from the fixture base. or how about using remodle cans? I quess I need more explanation.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Shockedby277v said:
Since there is a second layer of drywall being added, why not just cut a huge hole where the cans are ...

I did just that in a house where the original ceiling was a wood lathe and plaster disaster.
We cut nice 16x16 holes for ourselves :)
 

Jljohnson

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Shockedby277v said:
Since there is a second layer of drywall being added, why not just cut a huge hole where the cans are and rerough-in the existing cans to the second layers height. It might be cheaper than buying cheat rings, if there is any.
I would 1st ask what the purpose of the second layer of drywall is before blowing any large holes in the original layer. If the answer happens to be " for fire rating" then big holes would need to be patched and fire taped prior to second layer being installed.
 

marinesgt0411

Senior Member
thank you all The second layer is because the home owner does not like the texture of the finish and because of new cieling features new light locations duct locations speaker locations and the swiss cheese apearrance of the ceiling now the new layer of drywall is cheaper then patching being faster and easier to get the smooth finish desired.

cutting around the light fixtures to lower them is not a problem untill all that insulation falls into your face as you cut the holes around the fixtures some of the places the roof is only a few feet (1or 2)from the ceiling so it cannot be done from above

this is a remodel so things are already in place some get moved some stay and some are new

don't the same rules apply for lights as any other device. 314.20 or 21 come to mind do not have my codebook handy.

like I said just looking for a cleaner way then having insulation fall down my back
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
marinesgt0411 said:
don't the same rules apply for lights as any other device. 314.20 or 21 come to mind do not have my codebook handy.

No they don't.

314.1 Scope.
This article covers the installation and use of all boxes and conduit bodies used as outlet, device, junction, or pull boxes, depending on their use, and manholes and other electric enclosures intended for personnel entry. Cast, sheet metal, nonmetallic, and other boxes such as FS, FD, and larger boxes are not classified as conduit bodies. This article also includes installation requirements for fittings used to join raceways and to connect raceways and cables to boxes and conduit bodies.

Keep in mind that the 1/4" requirement applies to items containing current carrying parts, as a device box with a switch or receptacle.

The trim on a recessed fixture does not contain current carrying parts.

If there was specific NEC rule for these it would like likely be found in part XI of 410.
 
Basicly I see two types of cans, Halo & Lightolier
With the Halo you can take the ?? screws out & drop the inside ?can? down to the finished surface. You may need to drill new holes for the ?? screws to go back into.
If it?s the Lightolier type just get new remodel rings into the new sheetrock.
If you really want to avoid the insulation you better try the plumbing trade.
 

marinesgt0411

Senior Member
iwire said:
No they don't.



Keep in mind that the 1/4" requirement applies to items containing current carrying parts, as a device box with a switch or receptacle.

The trim on a recessed fixture does not contain current carrying parts.

If there was specific NEC rule for these it would like likely be found in part XI of 410.

that will save me alot of work drywallers can just cut out the old fixtures and I can install the new trims Thank you very much

I do not do a lot of residential so alot of things that are normally spec'ed I get confused with what is code I am still struggling with that new fanggled wire called ROMEX
 

marinesgt0411

Senior Member
77401 said:
Basicly I see two types of cans, Halo & Lightolier
With the Halo you can take the ?? screws out & drop the inside ?can? down to the finished surface. You may need to drill new holes for the ?? screws to go back into.
If it?s the Lightolier type just get new remodel rings into the new sheetrock.
If you really want to avoid the insulation you better try the plumbing trade.

It is the lightlolier type and was not sure if they made anything like the remodel rings.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
marinesgt0411 said:
...

like I said just looking for a cleaner way then having insulation fall down my back
Hired help comes to mind....even if is only the kid down the street ~ it's gonna be a filthy dirty job, get the best "professional" you can afford :)
 
lightolier
ask for the rings only for a 1103R for 6" or 1003R if its 5"

I don't think they specifically sell the ring only so you better be friends with the warehouse help.
or PM me & let me know how many you need.
I have a box of them in the shop.

to avoid the insullation down you back..stand to the side when cutting the holes.......
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Sarge, I don't remember ever seeing a recess can that did not adjust within the mounting flange. There should be three 1/4" hex-head/philips combo screws around the inside of the can about 1/2" above the bottom, as mentioned above.

The only "goof" trim-rings I've used allow for a larger (i.e. sloppy) hole diameter, not for depth. The socket almost always allows for adjustment of the face of the bulb relative to the trim, which always sits on the face of the ceiling.

There should be no need to enlarge any holes, nor remove the cans at all, meaning there should be no insulation falling. I'd really have to see a pic of the inside of a can with the trim removed to be of more help.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Lightolier Lytecaster frames can accommodate ceilings up to 1" thick without any modification. This would work with two layers of 1/2" sheetrock. If the ceiling is thicker than 1" they make an Extra Thick Ceiling Mounting Ring Accessory for ceilings up to 2" thick.
 
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