Inspector Romex Woes

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I have a SD QO outdoor 40 circuit 200 amp panel with two ko's in the back and a 2 1/2 ko out side. I moved the panel from the original location and put it on the new edition. alll the wires are doubled thru bored holes until they penetrate the back of the panel. I used The two 2" opening for the circuits and 2 1/2 outside via pvc and condulet LB. I've seen hundreds of services done this way and most only thru the one 2" opening on 2oo Amp panels. The 24" nipple conductor fill cover this and the bundling rules cover the bringing the wires down the wall into the back? There is no 14 awg romex used only 12/2 with ground due to deration , ambient temp, and the fact I have a lot in reserve due to wire prices and China buying up copper commodies. The I spector is and honorary licesense holder thru a municipality. Also new arc faults still having problems with overheating ?
 

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Big,

I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you having issues with the AFCI's and/or the inspector?

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 
BigBlue
Welcome to the forum.

I know you probably understand what you wrote.
When writing, it is sometimes difficult to get one's point across. Please try to explain yourself a little better, and separate each question which will make it easier to understand as well.
 
Big,

I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you having issues with the AFCI's and/or the inspector?

Welcome to the Forum. :)

Thanks for the welcoming. The inspector is saying that the romex entering the back of the panel should be derated. I say it's a 24" or less nipple and no deration and the romex down the wall is spaced enough apart and there is no deration even though I used # 12 on General branch circuits. As far as the Arc Fault do they still have over heating problems when placed next to each other
 

M. D.

Senior Member
from Siemens

Could an AFCI feel warmer than other breakers in the same panel?

An AFCI breaker may feel warmer to the touch than a non-AFCI circuit breaker. This is due to the heat generated from the power supply for the electronics. Siemens AFCI breakers tested in an average ambient temperature of 23? C (73? F) operated at an average temperature of 38? C (100? F.) This is well within the UL Standard 489 Section 7.1.4.1.3 which states - Temperature rises on handles, knobs, and other surfaces subject to user contact during normal operation shall not exceed 60?C (140?F) on nonmetallic surfaces. It is warm enough to detect with the hand, but this heat does not impact the operation of the AFCI.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
I know it done all the time but,.. I'm not sure the installation complies. Also it sounds as if you have Nm in a conduit outside,.. also done all the time

http://ecmweb.com/nec/code_qa/nec_questions_answered_0201/




Exception: Cables with nonmetallic sheaths aren't required to be secured to the enclosure if the cables enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through a nonflexible raceway not less than 18 in. or more than 10 ft long, if all of the following conditions are met:

(a) Each cable is fastened within 1 ft from the raceway.

(b) The raceway doesn't penetrate a structural ceiling.

(c) Fittings are provided on the raceway to protect the cables from abrasion.

(d) The raceway is sealed.

(e) Each cable sheath extends not less than ? in. into the panelboard.

(f) The raceway is properly secured.

(g) Conductor fill is limited to Chapter 9, Table 1 percentages
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Your right as far as derate goes but he could go after the use of the 2 " holes as even if you used a romex connector it is violation use. Hopfully he will bend a little for you.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
The top right of this panel where the NM cables come in is a bushed hole ,.. even if there were a nipple or a connector in it it is a violation,..IMO

electrical130.jpg
 

monkey

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
I agree but with a (3R) panel upgrade on an existing dwelling what can you do? Even on new construction, a 3R loadcenter does not have enough area for a bunch of 1/2" holes, plus they are already punched full of 1" & bigger.

That sure looks like an Arizona install.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
The problem is romex connectors are listed for the number and size they are ok for. Your 2 or 2 1/2 is not listed for the use you have in mind. Also your on thin ice for even a few inches of conduit and fittings outside. Not saying i have not done the same. This is a call your inspector gets to make. Many understand the problem and allow it but strictly up to them.

While that 3r panel is fine some could argue that romex can not enter it as it is outside.

Derating here is really pushing it but if they are over 24 inches bundled then fix.
 

Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
The problem is romex connectors are listed for the number and size they are ok for. Your 2 or 2 1/2 is not listed for the use you have in mind. Also your on thin ice for even a few inches of conduit and fittings outside. Not saying i have not done the same. This is a call your inspector gets to make. Many understand the problem and allow it but strictly up to them.

While that 3r panel is fine some could argue that romex can not enter it as it is outside.

Derating here is really pushing it but if they are over 24 inches bundled then fix.

Hey doesn't 310.15(A)(2) save you from derating if your "bundle" is not more than 10 ft long or 10% of the lenth of the circuit?

I wouldn't let him slam you if your bundle is 30 inches without exploring 310.15(A)(2)
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Install j-box in attic or overhang. Run conduit to panel with thhn. PITA but it's legal. No romex to WP panel or short conduit is stupid but there is lots of that in the NEC.
 
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