Max number of recepts per circuit, part 2

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jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
izak said:
does anyone know where i can reference the NEC handbook online, so i can go look and see what it was that limited receps like i remember?

Here is the quote from the 2005 Handbook. Notice the very last sentence.

In Exhibit 220.4, the maximum number of outlets permitted on 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits is 10 and 13 outlets, respectively. This restriction does not apply to outlets connected to general lighting or small-appliance branch circuits in dwelling units.
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
peter d said:
Dnem, try as you might, you aren't going to convince anyone here that you're correct. It's over, done, stick a fork in it.
It appears you disagree with something that I've posted. But if you don't specify, noone will know what you're talking about.

As far as "everyone here" goes, I didn't realize that you were the group spokesman. As group spokesman you should be able to explain your position better, specify what you don't agree with, and post code articles if applicable.

David
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
dnem said:
It appears you disagree with something that I've posted.

Yeah, just about everything you've posted on this subject. :lol:

As far as being the "group spokesman" goes, can you point me to someone who has agreed with your position?
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
peter d said:
As far as being the "group spokesman" goes, can you point me to someone who has agreed with your position?
Go to the first page of this thread. Sixth post down by Bob [iwire]
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Peter,

Give the poor guy a break. When I have too much medication (too many beers), I sometimes am confused too. He agrees with us since he spoke to other inspectors and member of Code Panel.

He seems a little obstinate about some items, but then so am I. :)
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
dnem said:
Have you been talking to my wife !? Mad

Only if she is that good looking lady that says her husband is too busy on the internet to pay her any attention. :p :p :p

I'll let you talk to my wife about that one though.!
:)
 

colosparker

Senior Member
LarryFine said:
To paint a visual picture of the discussion, let's say there is a room that has 10 receptacles in it, and they're all on one circuit. So far, okay, right?

Now, let's sat the customer wants more receptacles, and this room ends up with 20 receptacles. Do we now need two circuits for this room?

I say no. Good idea, yes; required, no.

No you would not need two circuits. Now lets say you have four bedrooms at 300 square feet per room. And you are running a 15 amp general lighting load branch circuit. There are 10 outlets in each room. How many branch circuits required?

Now lets say your example is a 1200 square foot bedroom. Could you have one circuit for those same 20 receptacles?

I never though this thread would continue into a Part 2.
 

Mike03a3

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
It seems to me that we have been pumping bullets into this dead horse for months.

Can we agree that there are two different aspects of this?

1. Is there an NEC limit to the number of receptacles you may have on a single general purpose branch circuit in a dwelling?

Forget good design, forget good taste, ignore common sense; just focus on the NEC. Can we all emphatically agree the answer is NO, that you can put as many as you want?

2. Is there a limit to the area that a general purpose branch circuit may serve in a dwelling?

I think a case can, and has been, made that the answer to this one is yes. Excuse me while I go get a flash suit to protect me from the coming flames.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Mike03a3 said:

2. Is there a limit to the area that a general purpose branch circuit may serve in a dwelling?

I think a case can, and has been, made that the answer to this one is yes. Excuse me while I go get a flash suit to protect me from the coming flames.

Mike, suppose I had a 10,000 sq foot home with 6 BR and the builder wants one outlet in each bedroom along with one outlet in living room, office, and den. The area served by these outlets is approximately 6,000 square feet. We could go with a much higher sq ft example. Explain what is the limit to the area that can be served. How would this violate any code. :?
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
Nowhere in the code is there an _explicit_ statement of a maximum number of receptacles or a maximum area served by receptacle branch circuits.

In a commercial occupancy, the general consensus is that you are limited to a maximum number of receptacles per circuit. But nowhere in the code is this explicitly stated. Instead the code explicitly states that you must assume a load of 180VA per yoke for your load calculations, and the general consensus is that this load calculation applies to individual receptacles on individual circuits. Since a circuit of given nominal voltage and current rating has a maximum VA capability, the implication is a specific maximum number of receptacles per circuit.

In residential use, there is no requirement to calculate the load represented by receptacles as 180VA per yoke. So even the implied requirement of a specific maximum number of receptacles per circuit goes away.

However in residential use there is the requirement that you calculate 3VA per square foot for all of the general lighting and receptacle branch circuits. The argument is thus made that because a circuit has a maximum VA capability then a circuit can only supply a maximum number of square feet.

A counter-argument is that the 3VA per square foot calculation only applies to the overall service calculation, not to the individual circuit. Added to the confusion is that maximum number of receptacles or area served by a single circuit is something contentious enough that it is made explicit in may _local_ versions of the code.

-Jon
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
Jon,

You bring up a number of thoughts that are debated back and forth and the way the code is written is the reason they are debated.

But one item you listed as disputed, I don't agree has any reason to be disputed. You stated, "A counter-argument is that the 3VA per square foot calculation only applies to the overall service calculation, not to the individual circuit."

I don't see how anyone can argue that the 220 calculations only applies to the service. In Branch circuit requirements it's clearly stated that these calculations apply to branch circuits, 210.11 first sentence.

David
 

izak

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MO
thank you everyone for helping me see the light on this issue.
i have too long been around inspectors who only allow 7 or 8 'openings' per circuit in residential - code and reality get quite blurred
 
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