Cameras in exit signs?

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MAK

Senior Member
Is it permitted to install a small board camera in an existing exit sign (the purpose being covert)?
I was asked to do so the other day and I had some questions about it. The location is in the Boston area. The exit sign has LED's in it with a small transformer for power.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
By UL, and NEC, I'd say no, except by the manufacture, welp, they might already have your answer (Fix) ...
Darn slow fingers ...
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Is it permitted to install a small board camera in an existing exit sign (the purpose being covert)?
I was asked to do so the other day and I had some questions about it. The location is in the Boston area. The exit sign has LED's in it with a small transformer for power.

I don't have a major issue with it as long as you do not modify the function of the exit sign.

Not sure there are any actual code ramifications. Kind of doubt it.

I sort of like the idea of just replacing it with a new sign that has the camera built in though. Probably be more cost effective.
 

barclayd

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
I think I would stay away from this.
None of the units presented by "480sparkler" even mention UL924. The first one even has a warning not to use as a safety device.
You mess with the Life Safety Code, and you're looking for grief.
Let the security boys find another place for their toys - maybe a fake smoke detector thingy.

db
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I think I would stay away from this.
None of the units presented by "480sparkler" even mention UL924. The first one even has a warning not to use as a safety device.
You mess with the Life Safety Code, and you're looking for grief.
Let the security boys find another place for their toys - maybe a fake smoke detector thingy.

db

FWIW, given current technology, you can hide a camera just about anywhere you want. Analog clock, plastic plant, sunglasses.... you name it.

Is there a reason you need one hidden right over the door? Maybe get one that looks like an alarm PIR.
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Why hide the camera? Put it out in plain sight so everyone can see it. It's like the black plastic domes you see in the ceiling or hanging in large retail stores. Some have cameras behind them, some don't. But it makes you think someone is watching you.

Isn't it always better to be preventitive rather than catching them after the fact???
 

mthead

Senior Member
Location
Long Beach,NY
Cameras in exit signs?

I hate to beat a dead horse but it's already been pointed out in comments before mine--there are products that will fit your needs on the market.
They are real-They have been "tested" and approved.
As I see it here is the reason for "testing,approval,inspection agencies,Ul labs...,etc..
Changing an existing item or device or fixture is something that "can" be done ,"can" be done without changing the initial function of the listed product---
I forgot one most IMPORTANT thing--some of us can do it !Our experimenting/tinkering/educated adaptations may produce "The Better Mousetrap"!
But others[ and probably most] will not do it correctly.

Products are listed in order to -[and this is where it gets really good]
1}PROTECT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!
-it's a fact of life and one that actually makes complete sense--it's the one time that a big buisness will profit from concern for the public.If you don't have a problem you just keep paying in and they'll never have to pay out.I actually think it's one of the few even buisness models in life.
They don't want something to go wrong resulting in a possible payout situation.
If you don't follow the rules-useing listed products,using licsened electricians,following code-then all bets are off and you lose-the money you paid in through the years is for naught[nothing] because you blew it-thats right you blew it-the smart electrician will find a way to make their client realize that they are doing things the right way out of concern for the customers life and also their pocketbook.
2]to attempt to set a "MINIMUM"[that means "at least",it doesn't say best]
level/expectation of performance so that people get to live another day-insurance companies get another payment and life goes on.
Figuring out wether something will function the same/as well /or maybe better is something best left for the garage bench and not for a situation that can in ANY way possibly affect life or property.
I would NEVER take it upon myself to decide that I know best or better and alter a product--WHY?--because it could be my son and your son who were in that mall store where a fire begins---I do not have to go any further-
We have rules because we want everybody to have the same chance to come out alive-
I didn't say gaurantee to get out-I said chance.
 

TOOL_5150

Senior Member
Location
bay area, ca
fail-camera.jpg


~Matt
 

Stallzer

Member
Location
MN
I think I would stay away from this.
None of the units presented by "480sparkler" even mention UL924. The first one even has a warning not to use as a safety device.
You mess with the Life Safety Code, and you're looking for grief.
Let the security boys find another place for their toys - maybe a fake smoke detector thingy.

db

Can't use the Fake smoke detector thingy, that would be installing a non-functional Life safety device. to avoid any cross over with the Life safety systems and if you really want a Covert camera, go with the round clock camera.
mount it next to the door, 1 screw and 1 anchor....voila!
 

MAK

Senior Member
FWIW, given current technology, you can hide a camera just about anywhere you want. Analog clock, plastic plant, sunglasses.... you name it.

Is there a reason you need one hidden right over the door? Maybe get one that looks like an alarm PIR.

I realize that you can get just about any device with a camera in it. The customer wanted to see people leaving his facility with product. That is why it is above the door(not my idea).
The customer did not like the PIR camera, the clock camera, and is too cheap to purchase an exit sign camera.
So this is why I ask do you think there is a code that would not permit you to modify an exit sign to install a small board camera inside it?

I am a little uneasy about modifying something that is already UL listed. My employer is not but I know that he has not given this subject any thought.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I realize that you can get just about any device with a camera in it. The customer wanted to see people leaving his facility with product. That is why it is above the door(not my idea).
The customer did not like the PIR camera, the clock camera, and is too cheap to purchase an exit sign camera.
So this is why I ask do you think there is a code that would not permit you to modify an exit sign to install a small board camera inside it?

I am a little uneasy about modifying something that is already UL listed. My employer is not but I know that he has not given this subject any thought.


As soon as you modify it, it's no longer listed. It's been tested as it comes out of the box. I doubt 110.3(B) says you can do what you want with it.
 

ultramegabob

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
I have a feeling the camera is supposed to be pointed to one side or the other and someone aimed it at the monitor for a funny picture.
 
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