Feeder ran through meter base

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Here?s a summary of this installation of adding an automatic home stand-by generator to an existing residence. One of our field supervisors, who is a licensed electrician, did this installation. Then had the AHJ list these (2) remarks for failing his installation:

1. ?service disconnects must be grouped ? either both inside or both outside. Now have 1 inside the house and one outside the house?

2. ?can not run fused and non-fused conductors through the meter base?

I originally agreed with the AHJ. But after hearing the debate from our electrician I?m on his side. Sort of. Well I wanted to know what the guys here thought about it. So here it is.

The original service on this residence was built with a (By the way the 400A service is way beyond overkill for this house about 3000sqft all gas) 400A meter base outside with (2) 200A 30ckt main breaker panels located in basement almost back to back with the meter base. (Almost = panels are in a wall perpendicular to the outside wall to which the meter base is mounted and the SEU cable comes out the back of the meter base through the wall and into the bottom of each of the (2) 200A main breaker panels. And this is acceptable by AHJ in this area)

The home owner wanted one of these 200A 30ckt main breaker panels to have an automatic home stand-by generator connected to it. (This panel had basically septic lift pump, gas furnace, refridge, freezer, some lights and recpts.)

Because the (2) 200A 30ckt main breaker panels were mounted on the end of this offset wall it made the installation of the 200A automatic transfer switch about 15? from the exterior wall. Our electrician not wanting to run the new service conductors from the meter base to the transfer switch this far inside the house without disconnecting means installed a 200A 8/16ckt Main breaker feed thru panel (trailer panel) o/s next to the meter base. So that the meter base feed thru the 200A o/s panel then to the 200A transfer switch inside then back to the existing panel owner wanted to use as emergency panel.
This caused remark 1. noted above. Our electrician said: 230.72(B) would allow this.

230.72 Grouping of Disconnects
(A) General The two to six disconnects as permitted in 230.71 shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be marked to indicate the load served.
Exception: One of the two to six service disconnecting means permitted in 230.71, where used only for a water pump also intended to provide fire protection, shall be permitted to be located remote from the other disconnecting means.
(B) Additional Service Disconnecting Means The one or more additional service disconnecting means for fire pumps, emergency systems, legally required standby, or optional standby services permitted by 230.2 shall be installed remote from the one to six service disconnecting means for normal service to minimize the possibility of simultaneous interruption of supply.

Because the meter was mounted next to a door of the house and the POCO 3? PVC blocked any access to penetrating the perpendicular wall again. Our electrician ran his feeder from the new 200A panel outside thru a separate PVC nipple to the meter base. (By separate I mean not with the service conductors feeding the 200A outside panel (2) different PVC nipples from meter base). Anyway he got his new SER ?feeder cable? back into the wall through the back of the meter base where the old SEU cable used to feed the 200A panel inside had been before. Using the meter to route his feeder back into the house to the transfer switch. This caused remark 2. noted above. Our electrician said:

?Assuming he is referring to 230.7 as I do not know of a specific code reference on fused and non-fused conductors in meter base then the meter base is an enclosure and not a raceway.

230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable
Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable.

Running the service conductors through one PVC nipple (raceway) and the feeder conductors through another PVC nipple (raceway) from the 200A Service Disconnect Panel (feed thru type) (enclosure) through the meter base (enclosure) back into the transfer switch would not violate 230.7 as the meter base is an enclosure and not a raceway.?

Sorry for long post I wanted to get as many specifics as I could out of the way up front. I originally felt that he had violated 230.72 but I believe if properly marked and identified this installation would be ok. And I see no safety hazard of the feeder passing back through the meter base and don?t know of a code section that says ?fused and non-fused conductors? can not be ran through meter base.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
electricrulez247 said:
Our electrician said: 230.72(B) would allow this.

I disagree.

The generator disconnect is not an "Additional Service Disconnect"

230.72(B) applies to "optional standby services" not "optional standby systems".

Assuming he is referring to 230.7 as I do not know of a specific code reference on fused and non-fused conductors in meter base then the meter base is an enclosure and not a raceway.

230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable
Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable.

Running the service conductors through one PVC nipple (raceway) and the feeder conductors through another PVC nipple (raceway) from the 200A Service Disconnect Panel (feed thru type) (enclosure) through the meter base (enclosure) back into the transfer switch would not violate 230.7 as the meter base is an enclosure and not a raceway.

Here I agree....sort of.

It is very likely the power company will not allow the extra conductors in the meter socket.

It may be the inspector knows this and is heading of a future issue with the power co.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
electricrulez247 said:
Here?s a summary of this installation of adding an automatic home stand-by generator to an existing residence. One of our field supervisors, who is a licensed electrician, did this installation. Then had the AHJ list these (2) remarks for failing his installation:

1. ?service disconnects must be grouped ? either both inside or both outside. Now have 1 inside the house and one outside the house?

2. ?can not run fused and non-fused conductors through the meter base?

I originally agreed with the AHJ. But after hearing the debate from our electrician I?m on his side. Sort of. Well I wanted to know what the guys here thought about it. So here it is.

The original service on this residence was built with a (By the way the 400A service is way beyond overkill for this house about 3000sqft all gas) 400A meter base outside with (2) 200A 30ckt main breaker panels located in basement almost back to back with the meter base. (Almost = panels are in a wall perpendicular to the outside wall to which the meter base is mounted and the SEU cable comes out the back of the meter base through the wall and into the bottom of each of the (2) 200A main breaker panels. And this is acceptable by AHJ in this area)

The home owner wanted one of these 200A 30ckt main breaker panels to have an automatic home stand-by generator connected to it. (This panel had basically septic lift pump, gas furnace, refridge, freezer, some lights and recpts.)

Because the (2) 200A 30ckt main breaker panels were mounted on the end of this offset wall it made the installation of the 200A automatic transfer switch about 15? from the exterior wall. Our electrician not wanting to run the new service conductors from the meter base to the transfer switch this far inside the house without disconnecting means installed a 200A 8/16ckt Main breaker feed thru panel (trailer panel) o/s next to the meter base. So that the meter base feed thru the 200A o/s panel then to the 200A transfer switch inside then back to the existing panel owner wanted to use as emergency panel.
This caused remark 1. noted above. Our electrician said: 230.72(B) would allow this.

230.72 Grouping of Disconnects
(A) General The two to six disconnects as permitted in 230.71 shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be marked to indicate the load served.
Exception: One of the two to six service disconnecting means permitted in 230.71, where used only for a water pump also intended to provide fire protection, shall be permitted to be located remote from the other disconnecting means.
(B) Additional Service Disconnecting Means The one or more additional service disconnecting means for fire pumps, emergency systems, legally required standby, or optional standby services permitted by 230.2 shall be installed remote from the one to six service disconnecting means for normal service to minimize the possibility of simultaneous interruption of supply.

Because the meter was mounted next to a door of the house and the POCO 3? PVC blocked any access to penetrating the perpendicular wall again. Our electrician ran his feeder from the new 200A panel outside thru a separate PVC nipple to the meter base. (By separate I mean not with the service conductors feeding the 200A outside panel (2) different PVC nipples from meter base). Anyway he got his new SER ?feeder cable? back into the wall through the back of the meter base where the old SEU cable used to feed the 200A panel inside had been before. Using the meter to route his feeder back into the house to the transfer switch. This caused remark 2. noted above. Our electrician said:

?Assuming he is referring to 230.7 as I do not know of a specific code reference on fused and non-fused conductors in meter base then the meter base is an enclosure and not a raceway.

230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable
Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable.

Running the service conductors through one PVC nipple (raceway) and the feeder conductors through another PVC nipple (raceway) from the 200A Service Disconnect Panel (feed thru type) (enclosure) through the meter base (enclosure) back into the transfer switch would not violate 230.7 as the meter base is an enclosure and not a raceway.?

Sorry for long post I wanted to get as many specifics as I could out of the way up front. I originally felt that he had violated 230.72 but I believe if properly marked and identified this installation would be ok. And I see no safety hazard of the feeder passing back through the meter base and don?t know of a code section that says ?fused and non-fused conductors? can not be ran through meter base.

That meter can is part of the raceway just as a junction box is.
I think its saying you need an additional disconnect for the gen..I dont think this lets you out of the grouped together rule.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Jim W in Tampa said:
Sure we can ,but thats not what he got taged for.He had non fused ran in same raceway as fused.

Jim you said an enclosure is the same as a raceway.

If that where true we could not splice in an enclosure.
 
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