POCO Eccentricities

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George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Yesterday I had to drive to a distant house to terminate the lateral conductors in a meter can. The power company dug the trench, attached their FNC to the riser I provided, stubbed the conductors into the can, and walked away. They refuse to terminate their end and install the meter until the electrician terminates the house side.

So on every single house that utility provides power to, they force the electrician to return to terminate three conductors, even though they terminate the handhole enclosure side.

I can think of no reasonable explanation for this. Anybody got a guess?

If I were so inclined to try to coax them into dropping this practice, how would I proceed?
 

jeff43222

Senior Member
The way it works around here is that the PoCo won't energize a service until the inspector (or sometimes the contractor) signs off on it as being safe to energize. In every service I've ever done, I've had the house side all ready to go (load side of the meter terminated) before the PoCo did their thing.

If they energize before you terminate, you'd then have to terminate while the meter can was hot, right? I'm assuming they feel this is less safe (for you) than if the termination was already done when they got there.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why didn't you terminate when you installed the meter can?
 

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
The power company dug the trench, attached their FNC to the riser I provided, stubbed the conductors into the can, and walked away.

Was your part of the job done? Did you have the house conductors terminated in the meter can?

They refuse to terminate their end and install the meter until the electrician terminates the house side.

This is for your own safety and their liability.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
You have no idea how lucky you really are. Where I am at the poco never digs. We have to do it. Now they changed rules such that even in the public right of ways ( under sidewalks, streets, intersections, etc) we have to trench, lay the conduit, string it, install concrete pull boxes, and various other goodies before they come out and energize. Then after we do all the work, they send a pretty hefty bill to the customer for the installation.
 

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
macmikeman said:
You have no idea how lucky you really are. Where I am at the poco never digs. We have to do it. Now they changed rules such that even in the public right of ways ( under sidewalks, streets, intersections, etc) we have to trench, lay the conduit, string it, install concrete pull boxes, and various other goodies before they come out and energize. Then after we do all the work, they send a pretty hefty bill to the customer for the installation.

Do I understand that you charge the customer to do this work and the POCO charges the customer? Or do you do the work and the POCO pays you?
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Are we taking about a meter disconnect combo. If so it would have been safe for them to terminated and seal the meter. Around here to get a meter you have to sign a temporary power release and get an inspection. If the inspector calls it in, then the power company will hook up anything. They have your signature saying that you are responsible. I have done this but I had a temporary panel hooked up to use as temp. power. When ready I removed temp power panel and switched to the permanent panel.
 
In Indian River County, Fl all parts of the service from meter can to main breaker must be completed before an Inspector will call for power. For a fee the poco will install the service lateral or the electrician can do it.
All OH services must be complete to the service point by the electrician.

If there are any other breakers or sub feeders installed then all connected circuits are subject to inspection. These must be finished, ie: trimmed out and breakered correctly or "safed off", ie: disconnects, boxes w/ covers etc.

If all these conditions are met then "Temp Perm" will be approved and the Inspector will notify the poco. On July 1 '06, here, all new services must be energized for Final inspection.

If this is a service change then the electrician has the option to file an affidavit stating he has complied with all codes and the service is safe to energize. He must also notify the county for an after the fact inspection.

If a service has been de-energized for a year or more then all parts of the entire system are subject to inspection by the County before power will be restored.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
jeff43222 said:
If they energize before you terminate, you'd then have to terminate while the meter can was hot, right?
I didn't mean that the way it sounded.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why didn't you terminate when you installed the meter can?
Because the POCO didn't dig the trench and install the conductors until I was long gone from the house.

On prior occasions, I had simply screwed the metermain to the wall with the load-side feeder terminated, and figured they'd do their end. On that occasion, they dug the trench, installed the conductors in the trench, and left it all sitting on the ground at the service. I had to return to install a riser and I terminated the conductors while I was there. I took that to mean, I need to install the riser and dig it down at the rough, so they can just install the conductors into the meter part of the metermain.

They did - they just didn't land the three wires when they did so. They say it's my job.

tshea said:
Was your part of the job done? Did you have the house conductors terminated in the meter can?
Yes, and the service was inspected and passed, with the sticker in plain view. They know it's okay to energize. :lol:

macmikeman said:
You have no idea how lucky you really are. Where I am at the poco never digs. We have to do it.
We have some areas we the POCO doesn't dig. Generally the GC takes care of it because we drive gold-plated trenchers. :D

It varies city by city here. Trying to record all their eccentricities (what to remember for each location for what type of occupancy) would be a feat!
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
George now that I understand more of what you are talking about I have a guess as to why they refused to terminate. Around here some of the utility companies farm out work like this to independent contractors. These guys don't tend to be very helpful at all. It is my opinion that they are also kind of on the lazy side ( don't do anything they can get out of ). You may wish to check and see if these are regular utility workers. :roll:
 

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
In my area the POCO does sub out some of the work. Either way, the POCO or their subs will terminate both ends of the underground lateral or overhead drop.
This only occurs after the inspector releases the service to the POCO.
Occasionally, the customer is charged extra for setting poles or for underground services. One of the ways to "beat" the charges, is to let the POCO know it's an upgrade. They generally will do upgrades for no charge, but I hear that that is changing.


These guys don't tend to be very helpful at all. It is my opinion that they are also kind of on the lazy side ( don't do anything they can get out of ). You may wish to check and see if these are regular utility workers.

Have to agree with growler!
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Do I understand that you charge the customer to do this work and the POCO charges the customer? Or do you do the work and the POCO pays you?

I charge for the work I do. Then from the way I see it the poco also comes out and charges for the work I do. Two guys show up with a bucket truck, one pulls the plywood temporary cover off the pit we had to dig where the sidewalk used to be. They ignore the pull string I had to provide them as per poco spec. They push triplex 1/0 thru the 3" pvc conduit I provided and installed. They remove the 2/0 or 3/0 tails I had to provide from the socket lugs down into a 3R pull box below the meter, (spec again), throw those on the ground, hook up the triplex at the meter base, and tap in the other end in the pit to heat up the meter socket. Then they install a meter into the socket and drive off. Total time on jobsite for 2 men is under an hour. Customer gets billed $900. Next I have to slide a 2'x 4' x 30" deep concrete pull box over the new splice and backfill around then pour concrete to repair the sidewalk back to what it looked like before I installed the pull box. Then wait for the city inspector to come out and look. I have no problem with a utility company making a profit for the work they perform, but if I charged 900 bucks for a similar 2 men less than 1 hour (less than 5 miles from base camp) and a 30 foot run of 1/0 alum triplex and 3 crimps, I would probably find myself either on 20-20, the Today Show, or in front of the regulatory board.
 
macmikeman said:
, but if I charged 900 bucks for a similar 2 men less than 1 hour (less than 5 miles from base camp) and a 30 foot run of 1/0 alum triplex and 3 crimps, I would probably find myself either on 20-20, the Today Show, or in front of the regulatory board.


or if you can get away with like your poco does you could be living on the beach in Florida drinking margaritas :idea:
Geezzzz it's amazing how different pocos are...
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
or if you can get away with like your poco does you could be living on the beach in Florida drinking margaritas
Geezzzz it's amazing how different pocos are...

Um, dude I live in Hawaii. I used to live in humidity, I mean Florida. I will take constant trade winds an avg 85 deg any time. 8)
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Quote:
, but if I charged 900 bucks for a similar 2 men less than 1 hour (less than 5 miles from base camp) and a 30 foot run of 1/0 alum triplex and 3 crimps, I would probably find myself either on 20-20, the Today Show, or in front of the regulatory board. :(

Gee, it seems to me I've heard of an individual who made $45,000 for each hour worked and then got a retirement package worth 40 million. Now why would a regulatory board want to mess with small fish like you? :p :p

It does seem excessive for what is being done.

Any place is fine to live except FL or TX!
:) :)
 
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