split buss panel

Status
Not open for further replies.
I know that old splitbuss panels required 6 movements of the hand to turn off all power. The panel in question is 200 amp with 4 double pole breakers on top w/ two 70 amp lighting mains below. Total (6) 2 poles. In the lighting section are regular 115v, 20's and 15's but also a 2 pole 50 amp for a heat pump. I have told the customer this panel needes to be upgraded, but they want to know what code would require this? I don't no where to find this. Does anyone know?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Why do you think it needs to be upgraded. It sounds like it has 6 disconnects. One of the 6 disco should disconnect the bottom half of the panel so you would not count the 15 and 20 amp circuits.

Am I misunderstanding??
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
The good news is the customer gets to save money.

Roger
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I think 1981 was the cutoff date for split-buss panels. No?

I generally say that those panels were banned in 1981, if I need a more compelling reason to upsell a new panel or new service. People need thing in layman's terms during a sales pitch.
 
split buss

split buss

This is a realestate inspection problem where the Home inspector said this was wrong. I should also say that the breaker was really 90 amps but a AC man said it was pulling only 45 also there are 3, 20 amp 220v ceiling heat breakers in the lighting area. It has been said that these where disconnected when the heat pump was added but they weren't disconnected in the panel!
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
In my opinion, a load calculation needs to be done, and that result needs to be compared to the service entrance conductors capacity.

It's all about the present connected load, not the breakers, as nothing in the descriptions, so far, indicates breaker configuration issues.

Remember, the sizing of the service entrance conductors would have been based on a load calc on original loads that may well have been replaced or upgraded and the original completely forgotten, by now.
 

realolman

Senior Member
wirenutis@cox.net said:
This is a realestate inspection problem where the Home inspector said this was wrong. I should also say that the breaker was really 90 amps but a AC man said it was pulling only 45 also there are 3, 20 amp 220v ceiling heat breakers in the lighting area. It has been said that these where disconnected when the heat pump was added but they weren't disconnected in the panel!

I think I would do my own research and determine for myself what the situation was and the loads were.
 

LawnGuyLandSparky

Senior Member
wirenutis@cox.net said:
This is a realestate inspection problem where the Home inspector said this was wrong. I should also say that the breaker was really 90 amps but a AC man said it was pulling only 45 also there are 3, 20 amp 220v ceiling heat breakers in the lighting area. It has been said that these where disconnected when the heat pump was added but they weren't disconnected in the panel!

Sounds like the R.E. inspector thinks nothing other than lighting is permitted on the lighting main.
 

Mike01

Senior Member
Location
MidWest
Double Pole breakers

Double Pole breakers

I believe the statement that no double pole breakers beyond the main is correct if you look at the way the breakers are bussed some of the breakers altho one above the other they will be on the same phase, therefore you would not be able to get 220 / 240 with a double pole breaker you would have to utilize a three pole breaker and uses the first and third positions, there is a nifty picture of this in the handbook section 408.2. Something I saw in a house when a homeowner had done some of his own wiring was at a gfi receptacle in a bathroom there were two hot conductors under one termination, two seperate breakers controlling each circuit one above the other as it turns out the panel was a split bus and bolth conductors were connected to the same phase...
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Mike01 said:
I believe the statement that no double pole breakers beyond the main is correct if you look at the way the breakers are bussed some of the breakers altho one above the other they will be on the same phase, therefore you would not be able to get 220 / 240 with a double pole breaker you would have to utilize a three pole breaker and uses the first and third positions, there is a nifty picture of this in the handbook section 408.2. Something I saw in a house when a homeowner had done some of his own wiring was at a gfi receptacle in a bathroom there were two hot conductors under one termination, two seperate breakers controlling each circuit one above the other as it turns out the panel was a split bus and bolth conductors were connected to the same phase...

This example of no double poles is specific to the way this panel is constructed. There is no general UL or NEC rule against having 2-pole breakers in the "lighting" section of a split-bus panel.
 

LawnGuyLandSparky

Senior Member
wirenutis@cox.net said:
It has two 70 amp mains, but i always tought no double pole breakers were alowed in the light section of the panel

Are you sure, TWO 70a mains? Or one 70a 2-pole main in the upper section feeding the entire lower section?

Never seen a 200a split-buss. Anyone got a pic?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top