Title 24, Place your hand on this Bible.

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What is up with title 24 and that you have to write some sort of disclaimer that the lights in the kitchen are up to this code.

We received a very, very, very theral inspection today. The inspector had the tape measure out, was off by a inch with staples at the panel, that went down as a correction notice.

We did the 51% of lighting in the kitchen, but I still have to fill out something that says I will knee down before the Gods of energy efficiently. What, they know that some people will end up tearing out the junk that is required by this ever increasing Communist State. Next they will be knocking at your door, "you have not met the State required reduction in energy consumption, we are here to "help" you comply".:-?

I'm not joking either, look at all the requirements mandated over the past 30 years, can you even imagine what it will be like in 10 years with the Global warming laws they are already working on?

Deron.
 

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
deronmoped said:
What is up with title 24 and that you have to write some sort of disclaimer that the lights in the kitchen are up to this code.
Deron.

Welcome to California. Title 24 is ours and not nationwide. I have not seen that we need to fill out any thing stating that our light meets the code. It seems easy to not be "Truethy'' about fixture compliance. As far as an inspector messuring how far the staple is from the box , that says more about the inspector then anything.
 

dana1028

Senior Member
The form you are referring to is probably one of the Certificates of Compliance....this is usually filled out by the contractor doing the work when there is NO inspection performed...thus, the contractor is certifying his work is in compliance with the energy requirements; the municipality keeps this in their files in case they are audited by the State Energy Dept.

Most municipalities have the sense to realize if they send an inspector out on the job there is no need for such a certificate [because their own inspection records are adequate documentation for the State Energy Dept.].
 
Yeah this inspector has a reputation, the owner/builder was devastated, going cost alot of money and time to change things that already meet code. The plumber was mad as hell, I just laughed at what she wants me to change. Staples at the panel, smokes count as a device so I'm one over (7 smokes on the circuit) on a lighting circuit and I have to now pull a extra home run, sign a confession.

I was thinking what Dana says, that the dwelling was inspected so why do they need me or the home owner to sign something. Are they trying to scare the people of Ca. into staying in compliance with "TITLE 24". Makes me think of all the lawsuits going on out here with handicap compliance. There's a lawyer in town that just sends out a form letter to small businesses that says that they are out of compliance with the handicap laws. Wants them to pay up or else. The lawyer could care less if they are already in compliance or if anything gets corrected, it's just a legal shake down. Some have paid, cheaper then going to court, a few have closed their doors.

Deron.
 

Bob Kraemer

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
deronmoped said:
Yeah this inspector has a reputation, the owner/builder was devastated, going cost alot of money and time to change things that already meet code. The plumber was mad as hell, I just laughed at what she wants me to change. Staples at the panel, smokes count as a device so I'm one over (7 smokes on the circuit) on a lighting circuit and I have to now pull a extra home run, sign a confession.
Deron.
Sure glad I live in Ohio instead of on the left coast. :grin:
Of course this will become federal law if Al Gore has his way on global warming. :mad:
Does she even realize she is inspecting a house and not a commercial job? :-?
3 watts per square foot for lighting & convenience outlets not 180va per outlet!
Just out of curiosity what does a smoke detector draw in amps? To be honest I never bothered to check. I usually pick the closet circuit that I know doesn't have much load on it and use that for my smoke detectors.
Good luck with dealing with the inspector.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
My oldest NEC is a 1915 and I bet when this came out someone said DAMN AHJ making me do this or that, soon it was an accepted practice we could not imagine not doing as part of an installation today. When GFP was introduced I was just starting in the trade and the electrician (who just retired) I was working with was complaining about these new fangled devices for switchbnoard protection that tripped everytime he shorted a 277 VAC conductor to trace the circuit. And then their was GFCI, and now AFCI, then CA adopts this rule.

Now me I live on the east coast and it will be a few years before this LEFT coast rule migrates east.

But it all really does start in CA. Low riders, surfing, The Summer of Love and now THIS. Oh well pass the tofu, PLEASE.
 
Trevor

I asked the inspector why smokes counted as one device on a circuit (15 devices allowed on one circuit in San Diego) when the current draw was probably less then a watt. She said that they did that so it would be easier for the inspectors to count the number of devices on a circuit, if they see a opening they just count it as a device, no need to figure out if it is a smoke or not. I wish I could have told her it costs the costomer alot of money so the city can hire idiots, but not why she was inspecting a job I was on. :cool:

So now in the future I will have to figure in a complete circuit for just smoke detectors and on top of that they have to be AFCI. Gets expensive real quick.

Deron.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
deronmoped said:
She said that they did that so it would be easier for the inspectors to count the number of devices on a circuit, if they see a opening they just count it as a device, no need to figure out if it is a smoke or not.
Are you sure this has been adopted in writing? It really sounds bogus. :-?
 
George

I bet it's just something they made up and have never been challanged on. I would have except I do not want to get on the bad side of the inspector as she could if she wanted to pick the whole building apart, anyways it was easier to just pull another home run. Now if I was working on a housing or condo track, that would be a different story.

Deron.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
hardworkingstiff said:
I was with you until this part. :rolleyes:

Hey I eat tofu all the time....actually has very little taste unless cooked with something else. When your a vegetarian you have to eat something for the protein.
 

muskiedog

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Thing is nothing gets challenged any more and everyone goes along. I live in the left north and Minnesota is trying to be California.

Right now am told that we wanted tax increases because the DEMS won. HUH.

We keep voting in the nuts. Tell everyone that they will give them the moon and they do not realize that we pay for it.

I think they want to tax me some much that I have to become depended on the State.

I know its easier to make a run but I would want everything with a code reference. When I make my findings I must use code references to back up anything be it UBC, NFPA, NEC, OSHA, EPA etc ....
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
When they figure out how to regulate the bad habits of kids, they will go a long way towards conserving energy. Came down stairs this morning and every light in the house was on, front door was open a crack (son had gone outside to shake snow off tree blocking Hughesnet dish (I guess). Hey it's only money!
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Brian, you don't need kids for that - my wife leaves the front door open all the time. It's like walking into an icebox sometimes, and the furnace running just adds to the headache. :D
 

rlc3854

Member
Location
Amite, LA
It is a shame that when you live in a very expensive part of the country tax revenues can be generated by the state,county and then the city. As the cost of the permit goes up so does the property value and property taxes. deronmoped you want to talk about what your extra steps are for grounding in your area? I know that some cities in California are now requiring the manufactures OEM Title 24 certification is required to be shown during inspection.
 
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