Changing bolt-on's while hot.

Status
Not open for further replies.

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
No, it is never safe to work on energized euipment and there is no provision to change a circuit breaker that is live. There are a few exceptions but they will almost never be encountered on a day to day basis for most of us.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
peter d said:
No, it is never safe to work on energized euipment ....

As I come from an overhead linework background, I can tell you that this is a profoundly untrue statement. There is a safe way to do any task. You'd be a really ticked off consumer if your home was powered down every time something had to be done on the lines in your area.

Surely there's a safe way to change a bolt on while hot. I can do it safely, in my opinion. I was just looking for a little documentation on the matter.
 

W6SJK

Senior Member
mdshunk said:
I was just looking for a little documentation on the matter.

Start with NFPA 70E which would require protective clothing etc. to be worn to protect against arc flash or electrocution.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
It's not untrue at all. Comparing linework to inside work is like comparing apples to hamburgers. There is no comparison whatsoever. Linemen have years of highly specialized training to work on live equipement. The vast majority of "low voltage" electricians do not.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I know of no manufacturer that provides instructions for replacing circuit breakers in an energized panel.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
It puzzles me that all the hot work tools and PPE exist for narrowback inside electricians to use on inside work, but there's no procedure to put them to use?
 

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
The definitions I could find on the web are:

"A person whose parents were born in the United States and who is considered unfit for the hard physical labor typically performed by those in the country of ancestral origin."

"The Narrowback Byline: Anonymous Volume: XVI Number: 5 ISSN: 08844240 Publication Date: 11-30-2000 Page: 78 Type: Periodical Language: English The Narrowback I can't remember when I first heard it, but my mother told me I was called a narrowback because it was slang for an Irish person born in the United States. When asked why a "narrowback?" she said, "I guess because narrowbacks are not as big and strong as the Irish who come over." Narrowback is defined in Bernard Share's Slanguage" -- A Dictionary of Irish Slang (Gill & ...

Sounds pretty derogatory to me.

Mark
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
busman said:
Sounds pretty derogatory to me.

I don't know anything about that. What I know is that this term has been discussed on this site at least twice before, and nobody seemed offended.

http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=55453

My apologies to my Irish brethern who were offended. I had no idea. It's just a slang term I learned a long time ago for an inside wireman that carries no particular connotation to anyone that I know of.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot. I was just looking for a little info is all.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Marc,
The OSHA rules for line work and inside work are very different. It is a very rare case where the OSHA rules permit inside wiremen to work on energized equipment, other than troubleshooting.
Don
 

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Marc,

My apologies also. I had never heard the term before. Sorry I missed the earlier posts on the topic. Live and learn.

WRT inside working hot; the only guess I have (other than the training issue already mentioned) is the COMPLETE variability of working environments. It seems that for lineman, they are usually working with large parts in a fairly large environment (the great outdoors). LV electricians are constantly surrounded by things like grounded pipes, metal ceiling grids, wet floors, grounded enclosures. It would be very hard to have standard procedures for all of the possible conditions. Just a thought.

Mark
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Marc, basically if we follow the OSHA rules that apply to electricians we can not open the cover on a live panel unless it is for troubleshooting and we have the proper PPE. Yes this is very different than the rules for line work.

If we think we have killed the panel we still are supposed to get out the PPE so we can test and verify the panel (or whatever) is dead.

Don't shoot the messenger.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
MD,

In legal terms as far as the difference between lineman, and wireman, working circuitry, my insurance agent clued me up a long time ago that life insurance was a lot more money for a lineman to get coverage than a wireman. so the underwriters see a significant difference, somewhere, to charge more. My best guess is that lineman are expected to work hot...Hot sticks, gloves, etc. Wireman are not expected to work hot for the most part, and it is a big production to do so on an inside ticket. Also two major differences is the NFPA code books that cover the crafts - NESC vs NEC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top