drywall screws used to secure exterior cover plates

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JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
I don't believe that screwing a receptacle to a box with a drywall screw is legal, but I've done it and would not red tag a job for it.

One reason I use the T & B / Union boxes is the covering that they have to protect the screw holes during plastering.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
David said:
The other issue is head sheer strength. Drywall screws fail sheer tests.
I'm going to try to post a link to another thread but I've never done this before so it may not work. Here goes

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeForum/viewtopic.php?t=25489&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Thanks a lot David. I read through 6 pages of posts. What did I find out? Most people think they are a cheap way of doing things but permitted. I don't like them for anything other than hanging drywall, but have used them on a few occasions. A lot of people want to keep their costs down. They could keep costs down by hiring illegal workers, but that wouldn't make it right.

Maybe this one is political but we have the best government money can buy, And Wal Mart is the largest contributor to one of our political parties of any corporation or individual. That is reason enough for me to boycott them. The big orange is #2. Nuff said. :)
 
I am assuming that this is about using plastic type boxes, and not metal boxes.

1. DRYWALL screws - I think the name says a lot.
2. The typical screw that box manufactureres know comes with the devices is a 6/32. Some boxes are not device boxes and the typical screw shank size is 8.

I believe that the portion of the box that accepts the screw has been designed for a 6 or 8 size shank, depending on if it is a device or fixture box. If a screw of large diameter is used, it will put excessive pressure on the wall of the box, and in some instances the pressure splits where the screw is inserted. I have seen this many, many times as I am sure others here also have.

try this site
www.grabberman.com

click on fasteners, click on screws
 

inspector12

Member
Location
Pa.
First reply try not yo mess this up

Carlon boxes have a FAQ sheet on there web site for boxs

unsure of how to add link,they reference UL514A & UL514C as to the required gauge of screw used #6

As for the drywall screw the threads are designed for wood not plastic.If there used in a damp or wet location they will rust.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
inspector12 said:
As for the drywall screw the threads are designed for wood not plastic.If there used in a damp or wet location they will rust.

I will not agree with they will rust. I have used SS drywall screws for a number of things (not electrical) in a wet location and I haven't seen them rust. Yeah that is kind of nitpicking. Sorry.

If the hole gets stripped in a plastic box, what do you recommend. Some of them have enough wall to tap for 8-32 but there are ones that do not. I haven't had a problem with steel boxes in years. The case I received from supply house had no tapped holes, which of course I didn't discover until time to install devices. Supply house was good about it though, they offered to exchange them. Nobody wanted to pay for dry wall and paint repairs though.

Mostly I don't have problems with plastic either. Now I use a low torque on screwdriver and finish by hand. Don't seem to strip them out doing it this way. :) :D :D :D :D
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
As far as altering the listing of the box goes. I know that boxes are listed to be used with hardware that has certain specifications. I don't question that Pierre is right.

Pierre C Belarge said:
I believe that the portion of the box that accepts the screw has been designed for a 6 or 8 size shank, depending on if it is a device or fixture box. If a screw of large diameter is used, it will put excessive pressure on the wall of the box, and in some instances the pressure splits where the screw is inserted. I have seen this many, many times as I am sure others here also have.

Each AHJ has to decide how far to press each issue. We could spend all day at one house taking apart every joint and looking at every screw and nail but then we would need 10 times the number of inspectors and a budget to match.

We don't want to micromanage every fastener choice. So we see what products are realistic common problems and concentrate on those. We won't approve anything installed with a drywall screw but beyond that, the contractor is pretty much free to use whatever type of fastener they think will get the job done and if they choose one that's too big for that particular box and is not listed for that application, then they take responsibility for whatever damage is done to the box.

Our view of drywall screws is as Mike once posted

Mike03a3 said:
The black drywall screws have a coating that protects them against corrosion from the chemical composition of the drywall. As a byproduct, they are very brittle. Even a cursory google of the internet will bring up thousands of cautions against using them in applications requiring any real strength. As many have already said, they are especially poor in shear strength.

If other types of screws are used in a job that passes inspection, that doesn't mean we agree with the choice or have determined that it's the proper screw. Just because a job is inspected doesn't mean that the contractor is free from responsibility or liability. The contractor always bears the most responsibility for his job, more than the inspector. Our time on the job is extremely limited and is only a quick snapshot of the job as it stands at one particular moment.

If we say we will accept any screw except a drywall screw that doesn't mean that we're certifying the compatibility of whatever fastener the contractor chooses with the box it's used on.

In a way, we're just picking our battles wisely to use our time to accomplish the most good. We can't drive ourselves crazy backing out and examining every little screw and trying to determine its compatibility or listing for that particular equipment.

David
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
David said:
Each AHJ has to decide how far to press each issue. We could spend all day at one house taking apart every joint and looking at every screw and nail but then we would need 10 times the number of inspectors and a budget to match.

Couldn't you just work for 1/10 the money then we wouldn't need any more money in the budget? :p :p :p

Okay so its a bad idea. We have enough problems without trying to cut the pay and wind up with 10 bad inspectors and very few if any good ones.
 

inspector12

Member
Location
Pa.
nitpicking , yes i give you that.SS screws won't rust,but the coated ones will if you use the battery powered screw gun and remove coating.

enough said, I would not allow them if noticed but would not go looking for them,leave that up to contractor
 
What about supporting allied pan boxs with drywall screws.For some reason around hear that's what guy's want to use.I suppose is because these box's don't come with screws and they use drywall screws because they are free.I admit I've passed a few like this,but before I red tag something I want to be able to support it with a code section.I suppose that I could use 410.15(A)
By the way the box's that I am refereing to are not UL listed.
Paul
 

paul32

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
I've never stripped out the hole in an NM box, but I have broken the device screw. I have been screwing them in by hand, and on several boxes on one house the screw itself broke while turning it. A pliers to remove and the next was fine. One broke again trying to remove it, flush with the box. A little damage to the front of the box to get the screw out, but still enough depth of the hole to hold the new screw. I don't know if this house used a different kind of drywall mud or their technique. Anyone had this happen?


j_erickson said:
One reason I use the T & B / Union boxes is the covering that they have to protect the screw holes during plastering.

Oh, that's what that's for. I don't normally use Union boxes, but had to since my normal box supplier didn't have a bracket box. The first time I used it I was swearing at it trying to poke a hole in that covering. I only remember it on one hole, so either way it's a defect. :)
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
I believe that drywall screws are a violation of 410.15(A). I like the way Mike worded it.

Mike03a3 said:
The black drywall screws have a coating that protects them against corrosion from the chemical composition of the drywall. As a byproduct, they are very brittle. Even a cursory google of the internet will bring up thousands of cautions against using them in applications requiring any real strength. As many have already said, they are especially poor in shear strength.
 

mthead

Senior Member
Location
Long Beach,NY
drywall screws in electrical installation

drywall screws in electrical installation

pierre was right on the mark when he said the answer was in the designation "drywall screw".
This is one of those questions that will make us look sideways before answering because many have succumbed to the temptation of pulling that stubborn device in with an available 1 1/4" drywall rather than head back out to the truck to find the correct 6/32 for the same job.
If there is any problem we're responsible.
The potential for problems when doing this are myriad.
1]if securing a device to box and screw is too long that nice sharp end could pierce RX entering box-this is well within the range of possibility when it is a frustrated helper doing the work.
2]if used to support a pancake we know it is not rated for weight of fx's.
3]a big temptation is to use them outdoors-they make a galvanized drywall/decking screw[similar nice biting thread pattern but again it is not listed for use in electrical applications.

When push comes to shove[which usually happens in court],the screw manufacturer will say "why do you think we called it Dope-OOP'S I mean a DRYWALL SCREW".
 
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