Digital vs. Solenoid Voltage Testers

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iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
bhsrnd said:
Just out of sheer curiosity I want to know what the opinion is concerning digital versus solenoid type testers.

They are both great, it really depends on the work you are doing.

IMHO for day to day line voltage troubleshooting a set of solenoid testers with a continuity test feature are the right tool for the job.
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
... and if you're looking for something that can measure less than line voltage (such as to measure voltage drop, low voltage transformers, etc.), or which gives you more accurate values, an autoranging digital meter is probably the right tool.

What Bob didn't mention (but would the first time you mentioned that you're getting phantom voltages :) ) is that digital meters present a very low load to the circuit and can give misleading information. The solenoid testers present a much higher load and eliminate the problems associated with high impedance digital meters.

In short -- buy both :D
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
A voltmeter is used when you need to know the exact voltage (but is subject to showing induced voltage), while a solenoid tester is used to determine the presence of voltage (while presenting enough load to not show induced voltage.)

For troubleshooting, a solenoid tester is gold, as Bob said, plus I sometimes also use a 3-wire extension cord plugged into a known-properly-wired receptacle, for an in-hand reference hot, neutral, and ground to test against.

For example, when you have a dead receptacle, it's not always the hot that is absent; it's sometimes be the neutral that is open. Also, you can identify hot and neutral with K&T wiring. You may not always have a proper EGC to test against.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
I carry several digital meters for use everyday, but when I need to just know energized, not energized I grab the solenoid, it is a go no go tester.

But in EVERY CIRCUMSTANE I always test my tester on a known live circuit EVERY TIME.

The right tool for the right job.
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Call me a ole fashion tinkier and black boxer, I can take it. But here is a trck I learned a long time ago when I was a young squirt and they took ny good old Simpsom away from me.

Can't remember what the plugs are called (too long ago, can be found at any Fry's Electric). It is a dual bannana plug that fits just about any Fluke meter, then has a receptacle for bannana pins on the back to plug your leads in. They come with holes so you can solder in a device. Take a 2-watt 50K-ohm resistor and solder across the plug.

This puts enough load on the circuit to short out any "PAHNTOM VOLTAGE", but not enough to load the circuit. It is good up to 240 VAC. Basically you lowering the impedance of the DVM down to 50K-ohm just like a good ole Simpsom-260 with the accuracy of a Fluke. It basically is a combo of a solenoid and DVM together.
 

George Stolz

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Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Service Manager
Fluke has actually put a low-impedance module on the market, for use with their DMM's, to do just what Dereck described.

When Ideal makes one to fit my meter, I might just go buy one. :)
 

rcwilson

Senior Member
Location
Redmond, WA
Solenoid testers

Solenoid testers

I know older solenoid testers (are they still called Wiggys?) can pop solid state circuits. The inductive kick when it is removed may create a voltage spike.

An electrician was checking the satus of our new PLC system's 120VAC outputs. As he verified power at each circuit and moved the lead to the next output, the solid state output would fry. We lost all cards.

I read about a fatality with an older Wiggy on 480V. Supposedly the deceased was quickly checking terminals for voltage, with one probe on ground and moving the other probe quickly from phase to phase. The inductive kick of the solenoid generated an arc as the probe was moved towards the next pahse terminal. The arc followed the probe and jumped to a phase-phase fault.

I assume newer solenoid testers do not have this problem.
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
rcwilson said:
I know older solenoid testers (are they still called Wiggys?) can pop solid state circuits. The inductive kick when it is removed may create a voltage spike.

They can also damage the circuits just because they create too much of a load or create what is effectively a short circuit. That's the reason a lot of us went from analog meters to DVMs when they first became affordable. Using a low impedance meter, even if it's using resistors instead of a solenoid, on a printed circuit board is a great way to damage it.
 

rattus

Senior Member
General Radio Double Banana Plugs:

General Radio Double Banana Plugs:

dereckbc said:
Call me a ole fashion tinkier and black boxer, I can take it. But here is a trck I learned a long time ago when I was a young squirt and they took ny good old Simpsom away from me.

Can't remember what the plugs are called (too long ago, can be found at any Fry's Electric). It is a dual bannana plug that fits just about any Fluke meter, then has a receptacle for bannana pins on the back to plug your leads in. They come with holes so you can solder in a device. Take a 2-watt 50K-ohm resistor and solder across the plug.

This puts enough load on the circuit to short out any "PAHNTOM VOLTAGE", but not enough to load the circuit. It is good up to 240 VAC. Basically you lowering the impedance of the DVM down to 50K-ohm just like a good ole Simpsom-260 with the accuracy of a Fluke. It basically is a combo of a solenoid and DVM together.

No need to solder these, they have set screws, and you can stack them.
 

bhsrnd

Senior Member
Location
Fort Worth, TX
georgestolz said:
Fluke has actually put a low-impedance module on the market, for use with their DMM's, to do just what Dereck described.

When Ideal makes one to fit my meter, I might just go buy one. :)

Do you have a part number for that Fluke module?
 

plate

Senior Member
Location
South East PA
Fluke with the low impedance adapter is what I prefer. One tool does both. I like getting a "number" when I take a reading. It sometimes provides that additional info you need to say "ah-ha" that's it!
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
plate said:
Also, check out the post in the power quality section titled "multi-wire..."
Plate, since you were kind enough to throw up a link for the module, I'll throw up a link to the thread I think you're referring to:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=81277

Thanks! I would have been hard pressed to find it, that kind of stuff always takes me a lot of time. Stuff on the forum I find pretty easy. Good trade. :)
 

e57

Senior Member
Depending on the type of work you do a solanoid my be all you need, rough it, test it, walk away... But whens the last time you needed to measure current might answer that question for you. Or the last time you needed to know a voltage like 24VAC or DC? But if you do service work a good clamp-on meter is nessesary IMO. I own a solanoid, but haven't touched in years.... The clamp-on I use almost daily... The day Amprobe or Fluke makes a combo 400-600A AC/DC clamp-on, with a live circuit tracer - I'm there! Ghost voltage or whatever that is - is still voltage that drops under load - it's still voltage... And sometimes that too is good to know. Bottom line know your tools and how to use them.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
e57 said:
Depending on the type of work you do a solanoid my be all you need, rough it, test it, walk away... But whens the last time you needed to measure current might answer that question for you. Or the last time you needed to know a voltage like 24VAC or DC? But if you do service work a good clamp-on meter is nessesary IMO. I own a solanoid, but haven't touched in years.... The clamp-on I use almost daily... The day Amprobe or Fluke makes a combo 400-600A AC/DC clamp-on, with a live circuit tracer - I'm there! Ghost voltage or whatever that is - is still voltage that drops under load - it's still voltage... And sometimes that too is good to know. Bottom line know your tools and how to use them.
While I'm obviously a fan of solenoids, I didn't mean to imply it's my only tester. I do have a clamp-on, as well as a pocket multi-meter that measures frequency (handy for adjusting generators).
 

e57

Senior Member
LarryFine said:
While I'm obviously a fan of solenoids, I didn't mean to imply it's my only tester. I do have a clamp-on, as well as a pocket multi-meter that measures frequency (handy for adjusting generators).

Well there are some that everytime this topic comes up start diverting the neither world with 'ghosts and phantoms'... As if a solonoid were the end of the discussion.

Anyway - I too first learned the skills of troubleshooting with a giant black bakelite box in a leather case. (Simpson VOM) No, I am only 36....
260_8.jpg


Sometimes I wish I still had one....
 
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