GFCI located within 25' of AC?

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jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
infinity said:
Mike I disagree with your logic. A third receptacle will serve no real purpose. But even if someone did agree with you, your insistence on a third receptacle being required would be incorrect since a duplex receptacle within 25' of the AC unit is two receptacles. One would satisfy 210.52(E) the other will satify 210.63.



Here is the winner of the prize of the day. Did you read my post above?
The sections i posted stated receptacle (singular) and a duplex has two.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
Mike:

I can comply with both 210.63 and 210.52(E) by installing a simplex receptacle at the front of the house, and a simplex receptacle at the back of the house. :D

Steve
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Mike, I too disagree with your logic.

Here's another example:
210.52(G)For a one-family dwelling, at least one receptacle outlet, in addition to any provided for laundry equipment, shall be installed...
This language exists for the sole purpose of disallowing a receptacle outlet installed to comply with (F) shall not suffice for the purposes of (G). Notice they tolerate no duplex receptacle nonsense - they use the term "receptacle outlet" to thwart such arguments.

Your position is incorrect, IMO.
 

haskindm

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Mike,
I guess we are going to need to "agree to disagree" here. I would be interested in hearing what safety you are adding by requiring an additional receptacle. You are not going to eliminate the use of an extension cord, because the code allows the receptacle to be a maximum of 25 feet from the equipment. You are not going to eliminate overload as we all agree that this receptacle is allowed to be on the same circuit as the other outdoor receptacles. So, other than being obstinate, what is accomplished by requiring the third receptacle? The whole point of duplex versus a single receptacle just makes no sense at all. An outlet is an outlet. The code says that I must install an outlet within 25 feet of the equipment, it also says that there must be at least one receptacle on the front and one receptacle on the rear of a single family dwelling, I can find no justification for not allowing one of these receptacles to also satisfy the requirement for the HVAC receptacle. The code says what it says, and it does not say that the HVAC receptacle has to be dedicated to the equipment, on a seperate circuit, or anything else. It just says that there has to be a receptacle within 25 feet of the equipment and that it must remain "hot" even if the disconnect for the equpment is open.
 

eprice

Senior Member
Location
Utah
210.63 requires a receptacle to be installed for the servicing of the equipment. 210.52(E) only requires a receptacle to be installed without indicateing what it is to be used for. If a receptacle is installed to satisfy 210.63 and it happens to be located as required by 210.52(E) then that section is satisfied as well.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
electricmanscott said:
Way to take a good question and turn it into a bunch of nonsense. I am completely speechless after reading your "logic". Well done Mike. :roll:


Seems that we all agree except for Mike.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
The combination disconnect and receptacle enclosures that I have used require two circuits, one for the disconnect and one for the receptacle.

Does the manufacturers instructions state that? Because if they don't, you can just jumber over to the receptacle.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
dlhoule said:
The combination disconnect and receptacle enclosures that I have used require two circuits, one for the disconnect and one for the receptacle.

Does the manufacturers instructions state that? Because if they don't, you can just jumber over to the receptacle.
Careful, or you'll wind up with a violation of 210.21(B)(2). ;)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
electricmanscott said:
Way to take a good question and turn it into a bunch of nonsense. I am completely speechless after reading your "logic". Well done Mike. :roll:


I agree with Scott, nice job turning a simple question into gibberish. :roll:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Mike before you ask me as well.....I did read you posts. :)

I simply disagree with your position that the code requires separate outlets for the yard and the HVAC equipment. :p
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
georgestolz said:
dlhoule said:
The combination disconnect and receptacle enclosures that I have used require two circuits, one for the disconnect and one for the receptacle.

Does the manufacturers instructions state that? Because if they don't, you can just jumber over to the receptacle.
Careful, or you'll wind up with a violation of 210.21(B)(2). ;)

I haven't seen this or done this in many years, but some of us used to use a 3p 60 amp fused disconnect. Now I can't remember who made the disconnect. I believe it was either GE or Westinghouse. Anyway they had provisions for a tap off of line side of fuse and line side of disconnect. We would take and jumper from line side of disconnect from one of the 220 lines to the load side of fuse and use reducers to get down to 15 amp for an outlet and sometimes a light.

Now this was pre '86. Never had a violation on it and do not see anything unsafe about it. Also this was only with rooftop units. Unless there was an extremely rare situation the only time outlet or light would be used was with disconnect in off position. It is also very obvious about where receptacle and light are fed from. :wink: Assuming these disconnects are still available, do you see a problem with above installation?
 
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