Question about piece work

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Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
I currently work for an contractor who's also contracted for a larger company that can't keep up with his schedule and is talking about going from an hourly wage to peice work, now we're wiring up military base housing w/ 3 and 4 bedrooms roughly 1100 sq, ft.. (don't quote me) he's offering 600$ for a 3 bedroom and 650$ for a 4 bedroom. This is just for the rough-in, I would like to know am I getting the ass end of the deal or is this a good deal?
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
This is just my opinion but I think piece work should be out lawed. It's not conducive to quality work. Even if the $650 were a fair price that doesn't mean the next batch of houses wont go down in price. At present this sounds like about 60 cents a sq. ft. whick would have been good money for my grand father.
 

Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
That's what I thought, I tototally agree with ur statement, piece work is a bunch of BS especially when it's because an contractor is just trying to save his ass.. I'll confront him about the 0.60$ a sqft. What would U suppose he's getting per unit rough-in???
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Duse , I don't have any idea what the contractor is getting for the rough-in.
But the real problem is this, no matter what he bids the job for he can lower the piece work price so that his profit remains the same ( if he can find some to do the work ).

Older and more experienced help may quit forcing him to pick up whomever he can. There are people out there that will work 16 hours to make $200. or less. I just don't think that electricians should have to work for slave wages.

I see piece work as the next best thing to shipping the jobs over seas. If you can't find any Americans willing to work that cheap then you can import some on H1-B Visa's.

If this work is a Federal Job and is Federally funded I think they should be paying prevailing wage. I don't know that it is but it would be worth looking into.
 

Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
All materials are supplied to the contractor, all he's trying to do is put responsability on his employee's so he'll have someone to blame when it comes the time for trim and hot check, while doing nothing and collecting a pay check for himself....
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Duse if you are not familiar with prevailing wage laws now would be a good time to start learning. I don't know what you are getting paid now but it's probably not up to prevailing wage ( unless you have a generous employeer ). Check with the labor department in your area. Remember that prevailing wage at the job site can even be different than at your home address.
 

Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
Where would be a good place to start?? This would be the 1st I've heard of Prevailing wage... BTW I'm an Apprentice w/ roughly 4 months till my journeyman's making 15$ hourly... I wouldn't mind sticking to hourly wage but the contractor is pretty much making this piece work mandatory thing now...
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
If you are only contracted to do the rough - where will you be for trim?

I made the mistake of getting involved with this sort of act.

Way before I even considered getting my EC license...

I answered an ad for an electrician. The EC was subbing out the rough work in a multi-story/unit condo rehab project. I "agreed" to wire 3 units for bout $150/unit....although MY math showed I should be charging $300/unit - I was "between jobs" and needed money to pay bills. I confronted the EC and he replied he was getting the $300/unit, I would be getting $150/unit and he supplies the material, permit, etc...but no tools, I'm not covered under his insurance, etc. Being "desperate", I "agreed".

The job was a nightmare.

This EC insisted that the AHJ gave his blessing on using:
- a 12/3 MC for MWBC for the SA ~ Black/white one circuit; red/green for the other...where is the EGC?
- using the EXISTING K&T wiring in the ceilings to supply the lighting ~ on a "100%" rehab?

I stopped asking questions...and just roughed the place.

At one point, he asked if I would "trouble-shoot" a unit that was trimmed out...NO WAY.
Another guy doing some wiring there took the challange...this guy was actually an electrician...he called me into that unit and hit the light switch, light came on, hit another switch (different room), that light came on - but BOTH lights output was reduced. He told me what was wrong(lights wired in series). Then we talked for a bit...about the K&T entering the ceiling boxes, no EGCs and how we were both getting the hell out of there ASAP and PDQ!

This other electrican and myself were gone within days - cash in hand...who would be responsible for troubleshooting? The EC had 2 "electricians" in his employment, both were plotting their "exit strategy".

Your situation might be different than mine...or you might be in the same boat as his 2 employees
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
how long does it take you to wire a unit now? Will you be making more or less if you go piece rate? That should be your only concern, as long as you are still covered by his workers comp. and insurance.

Steve
 

Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
I figure it'll be 30+ Man Hours total per unit, that's with boxing, drilling, pulling, cutting, kickplate, firecaulk, service and grounding... I still feel I'm getting raped on this deal..
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Duse said:
... 600$ for a 3 bedroom and 650$ for a 4 bedroom.
Duse said:
....making 15$ hourly...
600/15= 40hrs
650/15= 43.33hrs

Duse said:
I figure it'll be 30+ Man Hours total per unit
HE figures you'll be there 40hrs+ per unit.

If you can get it done under 40 hrs/unit, your "hourly" rate goes up....so that means:
- no coffee break
- no lunch
- no potty
- no cellphone
- no illness or "sore" body parts
- all the planets will be in perfect alignment
- you will talk to no one
- no one will talk to you
- ask no questions ~ slam, jam and scram
- no broken, jammed power tools

You get the picture....all you need now is your ECs license and off you go.
 

Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
Ok and here's the other thing, 1 other guy and I are the only people on the crew who have done electrical work before, the rest of the retards (10 others) have never done any electrical before, they don't even know how to staple, the boss is never on the job supervising, and this cat is offering them the same per unit.. Sounds great to them cause they were just at 9.19$ an hour.. For me all this seems like is I'm getting pimped...


What do you recomend I do?? Thinkin about quitting this BS...
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Duse said:
Virginina does not have a prevailing wage act... Jus called Department of Labor... OH well..

The location doesn't matter. Prevailing wages are paid on federal construction projects in the US and its territories. I believe piece meal is OK as long as you make at least the min prevailing wage. It's called the David-Bacon Act. If any federal construction is exempt I have never heard of it. Unless you are in a qualified apprenticeship program you are entitled to the full rate (even with no experience).
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I may be wrong about this, If I am, I apologize. This is my reasoning.

First .... Military housing, I would assume that this is a Federally funded project.

Second....The Davis Bacon Act. covers the pay recieved by each hourly worker. I can't find anything about piece work. I would assume that if your piece work pay equals or exceeds the prevailing wage there would be no problem . But this would require the carefull documentation of hours actually worked to include overtime.

Third.....Here is where I see a potential wrong. The worker through no fault of his own takes 60 hrs. to rough in the house ( Snow, storms, alien invasion ). He is only paid $10 pr. Hr. when maybe the prevailing wage is $25 Pr. Hr.

One thing to remember is that under the Davis Bacon Act. there are no helpers wearing tools and pulling wire. Tools = Journeyman

That's why this guy is trying to dodge the bullet.

The thing that really burns me up about the situation is this, all the contractors that put in legitimate bids knowing that there would be higher cost ended up losing out.
 
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Duse

Member
Location
North Dakota
Like I said, This sounds great for the xxxxx out there making 9.19$ that have no idea what 14/2 is, (jus that it is white) or how to wire up a 3way or 4way... While I'm an experienced electrician and making the same waes that these xxxxxx are making..

This is turning into a complaining forum article and I applogize for it but I jus need to figure out what I'm gonna try and do here about this situation..
 
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