messing with utility's triplex

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I understand this is not an NEC issue but I was just wondering what others' experiences are with working with and making connection to a utility's hot service drop/lateral conductors. Where I learned the trade and have done most of my electrical work, it was a no-no to do anything to hot utility feeds - we leave that to them. The reason I ask is I have been helping a friend with a service and the serving utility is one that I have not worked with before. We were re-using the service conductors and raceway on the load side of the meter so this is what i did: Pulled the meter, and pulled out the load side conductors and ran them in to a new meter and riser. Then I ran a temporary piece of cable to connect the load side of the old meter to the conductors out of the weather head of my new riser, installed a meter bypass plate in the new socket and put back the meter. I didnt have to mess with the service drop or anything hot and the new weather head is just a foot from the old weather head so i figure they will just come and swap it over then i can remove the old stuff. Well the utility's inspector came by and I was lost for words when she told me i had to remove the old stuff first and swap the triplex over myself! Is she off her rocker or is this standard in certain areas?!?! Maybe they'll have me seal the meter too!
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
We always disconnect and reconnect on service upgrades. Normally it's not a problem with the right tools and safety equipment. Others have commented here about working live but this is the standard practice around here.
 

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
I know a few utilities that are silent on the issue. They won?t scold you if you make the hot tap, and they will work with you to schedule an appointment for them to make the hot tap.

I also know a few that it is forbidden for you to tap a service drop.

I never herd of a utility mandating you have to make the hot tap. This does not sound right to me

Most utilities around here charge a the customer a reconnect fee. If you make the hot tap they have to check the tap and determine if it, in their words, is suitable for a permanent connection. If they make the connection the charge is for the materials and labor they had to make the connection
 

pierre

Senior Member
Don
What if the contractor or his men had the training and Proper PPE. There are a couple of Utilities that are training electricians to make this connection, and if they do not get the "certificate", they are not permitted to make these connections.
 

jeff43222

Senior Member
I usually tap the utility's hot conductors myself, mainly for convenience. After installing a service and getting it inspected, it's anyone's guess as to when the utility will be out to make the permanent connection. In the meantime, most people want the power to work, as they are already living in the house. So I connect my new wires to the utility's wires so things will work in the meantime. When the utility crew comes out, they disconnect my stuff and put on permanent crimps. This is standard practice for me, and the utility and the inspectors have never said a word to me about it.
 

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
jeff43222 said:
I usually tap the utility's hot conductors myself, mainly for convenience. After installing a service and getting it inspected, it's anyone's guess as to when the utility will be out to make the permanent connection. In the meantime, most people want the power to work, as they are already living in the house. So I connect my new wires to the utility's wires so things will work in the meantime. When the utility crew comes out, they disconnect my stuff and put on permanent crimps. This is standard practice for me, and the utility and the inspectors have never said a word to me about it.

We do exactly the same in my area.

Drove past a job we did 2 years ago...still has the temp on it. Contacted POCO this morning. As usual, thay claim they never got the release from the inspector. Called the inspector, he looked it up and said he talked to XXXXX. Called back to POCO, talked to XXXXX and told him what inspector said. A crew is being dispatched now.
 

jeff43222

Senior Member
tshea said:
jeff43222 said:
I usually tap the utility's hot conductors myself, mainly for convenience. After installing a service and getting it inspected, it's anyone's guess as to when the utility will be out to make the permanent connection. In the meantime, most people want the power to work, as they are already living in the house. So I connect my new wires to the utility's wires so things will work in the meantime. When the utility crew comes out, they disconnect my stuff and put on permanent crimps. This is standard practice for me, and the utility and the inspectors have never said a word to me about it.

We do exactly the same in my area.

Drove past a job we did 2 years ago...still has the temp on it. Contacted POCO this morning. As usual, thay claim they never got the release from the inspector. Called the inspector, he looked it up and said he talked to XXXXX. Called back to POCO, talked to XXXXX and told him what inspector said. A crew is being dispatched now.

This is exactly why I make my own connections. Not too many people around these parts would want to go without electricity for two years waiting for the PoCo to dispatch a crew.

I ran into the same runaround yesterday on a service re-connect job I did recently. The homeowner called me and asked when the house would be re-connected (there is currently not even a service drop), and the inspector told the homeowner I have to get the utility out to do the drop. So I called the utility, and they told me they need to be notified by the inspector. After I told the utility what the inspector said, they corrected themselves and said that the house was located in a city where the authorization to re-connect comes from the EC rather than the inspector. Even though the same utility provides service to all the cities I work in, it varies from city to city who the authorization has to come from.
 
Ok thanks for the input everyone, just good to know that it works both ways depending on the location. In my area, we almost always back feed the new service with the old entrance cable and a 100 amp breaker to give the customer power until poco comes. Thats the standard here. What is the recommended safety equipment for working with hot service drops?
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Pierre,
What if the contractor or his men had the training and Proper PPE. There are a couple of Utilities that are training electricians to make this connection, and if they do not get the "certificate", they are not permitted to make these connections.
I still do see how an employee of a contractor can make this connection without being in violation of the OSHA rules.
1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations.
The cost or inconvience of having the utility kill the power does not make it "infeasible".
Don
 

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Don,
We'll have to agree to disagree.
The inconvenience caused by the POCO is sometimes unwarranted. You can bet that if one of the POCO crew's house was out of power, it would be a very quick call to get it turned back on, permit or not.

Even if the POCO has a fee schedule for disconnect/ reconnect that isn't the inconvenience. The inconvenience is waiting for 7 guys to show up in 4 trucks and watch 1 man work. And he usually does it HOT.

Try calling for a reconnect at shift change.

I can tell you from experience that a service change is low priority. We upgraded a 600A to 1200A. All work was scheduled 3 weeks in advance. Contractor, POCO, and Inspection on a Sunday. POCO killed power on Friday afternoon (we weren't ready, but we took the outage) replaced the XFMR on Saturday, and did all the terminations. We were ready for re-energizing at 6PM Sat. Inspector showed up at 9AM Sunday as scheduled. POCO never showed up on Sunday as promised. Plant was actually out of power until Tuesday AM. Owner called the regional manager to get power on. This was 2 yrs ago. Still have not heard the excuses. Don't know how much income was lost due to POCO no show.

Now if the same situation occurs on a residence in the middle of winter the homeowner will need to protect their house from extreme cold. I know this is a rarity but it does happen especially in the snow belt.

There are arguements for both sides. I feel the contractor has to weigh the different scenarios and make his choice keeping safety in mind.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
tshea,
The inconvenience caused by the POCO is sometimes unwarranted.
It is still "inconvenience" and that is not the same as "infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations"
-
The inconvenience is waiting for 7 guys to show up in 4 trucks and watch 1 man work. And he usually does it HOT.
OSHA has a different set of rules for utility employees that permits "hot" work for them, but not for us.
Inspector showed up at 9AM Sunday as scheduled. POCO never showed up on Sunday as promised. Plant was actually out of power until Tuesday AM. Owner called the regional manager to get power on. This was 2 yrs ago. Still have not heard the excuses. Don't know how much income was lost due to POCO no show.
That has ne effect on the rule. The rule says contractor employee's can't do that work hot.
There are arguements for both sides. I feel the contractor has to weigh the different scenarios and make his choice keeping safety in mind.
The OSHA rule is clear. Any accident that involves an injury will result in an "wilful" violation fine...they start at $50,000 and go up from there.
Don
 
For most residential and even light commercial applications, I don't see that there is any "need" to work with the hot drop/lateral conductors. It is very simple to get the power going temporarily until the utility comes by backfeeding or using a meter bypass. I tripped the OCPD on a utility transformer once working with hot entrance conductors. Luckily the POCO came and reset the transformer within the hour, it was the end of the day and I just caught them - the homeowner would have been trilled to not have power until the next morning, now that would have been an inconvenience!
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
There are 3 POCO's in the tri-county area I generally work in. All 3 want you to call for a shutdown and reconnect when doing a service upgrade and all 3 state they will not provide temporary power after shutdown. However, none of them enforce that rule when an electrical contractor is doing the work and most of us "tap" into the triplex (in some way) to power up our tools. Frankly, if I had to wait for the utility company to come and reconnect I'd be backlogged about 10 jobs and not paid for the same. They always have some excuse for not showing up when scheduled to be back to reconnect.

As a side bar to this thread, the way it works in my area is when a service upgrade is completed and inspected, the inspector sends in a "cut-in" card to the utility and they then send out a crew to cut off your bugs and install their own crimps. Two out of the three POCO's in my area are pretty good about coming back and crimping the triplex onto the new service cable. The other is not. Some contractors I know use RX connectors to make the splices to the triplex knowing that the POCO's (in areas 1 and 2) will be there within a week or two to cut off the connectors and install their crimps. When working in area 3 we all use pickles, split bolt bugs or crimps knowing full well that this POCO may not be back for a year.
 

chicar

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster,Pa
If you are not properly trained for lineman work you should not mess with it. O.S.H.A. reconize this work as lineman, not contractor. Some contractors are well equiped for line work as well as wiring buildings. [yes,we are.]
They do make insulated crimps that dig through the wire insulation keeping you insulated from contact to wire. :D
 

JohnE

Senior Member
Location
Milford, MA
In MA, n-star has in writing that it is the electrician's job to change over service drop on service change. I don't think N-Grid addresses it, but it is standard procedure in both jurisdictions.
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Don,

Quote:
1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations.

Here in the Great State of Michigan, as well as most of the Northern States, if a service change is done in cold weather months; you'll have frozen pipes for the home owner to be unhappy about when you fail to connect the new service.

Would frozen water pipes constitute additional or increased hazards in your opinion? :)
 

dlhoule

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
don_resqcapt19 said:
Would frozen water pipes constitute additional or increased hazards in your opinion?
Maybe...that is a judgement call.
Don

Gee Don,

Isn't about 98% of what we do a judgement call. I mostly try to use good judgement and common sense and 98% of the time it meets code. You are right on 99% of the time. Well maybe its 99.9, but who wants to quibble over less than 1%? :D
 
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