MC required in home that is now commercial business?

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titan1021

Senior Member
I am going to be doing work (adding circuits and lights) in a building that is over a hundred years old. It was originally a two story home and has been converted to a restaraunt many years ago. All of the existing wiring is Romex, would I be required to run any new wiring in MC or Conduit, because this building is now being used as a commercial space. Whether I can use Romex or have to use MC cable would make a big difference in the cost of the work, not to mention a major hassle from a remodel stand point.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated !


Thanks
 

kkwong

Senior Member
Gut reaction is that Romex would be okay, however I would check with the AHJ to see what they want. I think it would also depend on how much work your doing and how much other work is being done.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
You can't have romex above the dropped ceiling in a commercial occupancy any more, so you'd need MC or pipe for your new stuff in such a space. You can compliantly run romex in many commercial occupancies, as long as it's not exposed (concealed behind finishes). Any stuff that's visible by some means needs to be pipe or MC. Article 334.

The days of "match how it was wired before" are done and gone.
 

kkwong

Senior Member
Marc-but if there's no dropped ceiling everything is run in wall and there's sheetrock/lath and plaster then would MC still be required. I don't want to be argumentative but I have come across this as well and the gut reaction I gave is the result of me calling the AHJ. There was sheetrock going up and he deemed NM to be okay.

Titan-can you give details to how the interior will be finished?
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
This old house

This old house

OLD houses, look out, ask the owner if they ever took pictures of the first rehab., there might be mid-span horizontal Blocking between framing.:rolleyes:
 

titan1021

Senior Member
Thanks, got one more ?

Thanks, got one more ?

Thanks, along those same lines the existing sub-panel is located in a closet. I have been told by a previous boss that if a panel is located in a closet that an electrician cannot add circuits to it, and that it must be relocated before any circuits can be added since the code does not permit sub-panel in closets. It seems to me that if an existing sub-panel is already in a closet that it would be basically grandfathered in as being acceptable.
 

titan1021

Senior Member
KKWONG

This business is currently open for business and all walls and ceilings are finished with sheetrock. I would be cutting some hole and fishing wires to existing receptacle boxes.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
NM

NM

probably not an issue (but some houses are awfully big), but I would at least make sure Art 518 doesn't apply.
 

kkwong

Senior Member
titan1021 said:
This business is currently open for business and all walls and ceilings are finished with sheetrock. I would be cutting some hole and fishing wires to existing receptacle boxes.

Then I would think NM is okay, but still check with the AHJ. MC is still easily fished, but it will add more to your bid.
 

e57

Senior Member
The reason you even ask the question leads me to believe that there may be a local restriction on the use of NM in commercial. (As is in many places) The answer is still with the AHJ....
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
kkwong said:
Marc-but if there's no dropped ceiling everything is run in wall and there's sheetrock/lath and plaster then would MC still be required?
Not in my opinion, coupled with a bit of educated guess. Depends entirely on the class of construction.
 

kkwong

Senior Member
You are right that the type of construction would be the deciding factor. I would think that since it was once a residence that it would be at the most a Type IV but I could be wrong depending on how much remodel work they did to upgrade it to an existing business. We have a few of these Victorian houses that have become businesses and they were ran in NM. Just my thoughts...
 
panel in closet

panel in closet

As an ahj, we don't allow any circuits to be taken from/to that panel in a closet. The concern is the load connected to that panel. We want the load reduced, not expanded. Time to consider safety!
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
titan1021 said:
I am going to be doing work (adding circuits and lights) in a building that is over a hundred years old. It was originally a two story home and has been converted to a restaraunt many years ago. All of the existing wiring is Romex, would I be required to run any new wiring in MC or Conduit, because this building is now being used as a commercial space. Whether I can use Romex or have to use MC cable would make a big difference in the cost of the work, not to mention a major hassle from a remodel stand point.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated !


Thanks
Occupancy comes to my mind. What is the occupancy? If 100 or more (which I doubt) then no romex.
 

Michael15956

Senior Member
Location
NE Ohio
bill@nkapc said:
As an ahj, we don't allow any circuits to be taken from/to that panel in a closet. The concern is the load connected to that panel. We want the load reduced, not expanded. Time to consider safety!
Bill,

How about this panel meeting the requirements of 110.26 and there is nothing else in this closet? Could it be considered an electrical equip. room then?

Michael
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
titan1021 said:
Thanks, along those same lines the existing sub-panel is located in a closet. I have been told by a previous boss that if a panel is located in a closet that an electrician cannot add circuits to it, and that it must be relocated before any circuits can be added since the code does not permit sub-panel in closets. It seems to me that if an existing sub-panel is already in a closet that it would be basically grandfathered in as being acceptable.

If this is a business that it probibly is not a close closet. A panel is allowed in a closet as long as it is not a close closet per NEC.
 

haskindm

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
There is nothing in the NEC that prohibits NM cable in a commercial occupancy as long as it is not above a drop ceiling or a "place of assembly" etc. Some local codes prohibit type NM in any commercial occupancy, so you will need to check the requirements in your area. If there is such a prohibition you will also need to determine if it applies only to new wiring or to all of the wiring, which may mean a complete rewire of the property. Also there is nothing in the code that prohibits the installation of a panel in a closet, only a clothes closet. If this is not a clothes closet (or may be converted so that it is not a clothes closet) and you have the proper working clearances, then there is no problem.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
bill@nkapc said:
As an ahj, we don't allow any circuits to be taken from/to that panel in a closet. The concern is the load connected to that panel. We want the load reduced, not expanded. Time to consider safety!

How is it you get to decide that? It either meets or does not meet code for your area.

And how does reducing the load in a panelboard make it any safer, unless it is already overloaded?
 
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