Splicing of conductors

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JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
I noticed that a couple of apprentices didn't twist the conductors together before installing wire nuts. This has always plagued me. I was taught that "Splices shall be mechanically and electrically secure".

Some one made an interesting defense. They stated that the wire nut box stated that splicing of the conductors was not necessary.
Would the specifications of the manufacture take precedent over the code as is my understanding.
Perhaps I am over thinking. Comments and thoughts are welcome as always.

Justin J. Walecka
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
JJWalecka said:
Would the specifications of the manufacture take precedent over the code as is my understanding.
Indirectly, yes, since weight is given to manufacturer's specs and instructions. The NEC probably doesn't consider this a conflict.

I remember the first time I was atop a ladder for a lighting troubleshoot, unscrewed a wirenut, and *sproing* the wires separated and I was plunged into darkness.

Fortunately, I was a smoker at the time and had a lighter in my pocket. Without it, the climb down the ladder to fetch a flashlight would have been even hairier.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
JJWalecka said:
I was taught that "Splices shall be mechanically and electrically secure".

What NEC section are you thinking of?

There is 110.14(B)

(B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors or with an insulating device identified for the purpose.
Wire connectors or splicing means installed on conductors for direct burial shall be listed for such use.

You will notice it only applies to soldered splices.

Some one made an interesting defense. They stated that the wire nut box stated that splicing of the conductors was not necessary.

Did you mean to say twisting of the conductors was not necessary?

That is not really what it says on the ones I have read.

They say pretwisting is not necessary but your supposed to twist the wire nut until the conductors get twisted.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
One thing that I find interesting about this whole pretwisting thing is that the manufacturer's instructions are changing over time with regard to this matter. The top image is the instructions off a 10,000 count carton of Ideal 73B's that is probably 6 or 8 years old. The second image are instructions from a brand new 500 count bag of the exact same Ideal 73B wirenuts. Note how the instruction has changed slightly over time:

73binstructions.jpg


wirenutbag-pretwistinginstruction.jpg
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Somewhere some inspector must have figured 'unnecessary' meant 'prohibited'

Imagine some ECs horror at 'untwisting' an entire building.:roll:
 

walkerj

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
I to have been plagued with wires falling from the wire nuts. I also prefer twisting with my fingers and not the pliers.
p.s. I quit smoking a year ago and still carry a lighter for "emergency light"
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That 5/16" (#14 and up) doesn't seem like very much contact area. I usually have about 1/2" after trimming.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
That 5/16" (#14 and up) doesn't seem like very much contact area. I usually have about 1/2" after trimming.

I will have to turn you in to the 110.3(B) police. ;):smile:

That said you really don't need much 'contact area', WAGOs are a great example of that.
 

khixxx

Senior Member
Location
BF PA
I twist my wires.

My buddy took a wire nut off and the wires sprung apart the hot wire hitting him in the hand. Well long story short he got knocked off the ladder and didn't come to until he was on his short helicopter ride to the local hospital. With a big blown hole in his finger that looks like those pictures in the first aid books (a common electrical burn with a nice hole). He still gets head aches and it's been over a year. He was off work for a year or even longer.

If I was working with someone that did not twist the conductors and I got nailed taking a wire nut off, and I was 100% sure who made it up someones getting an a$$ wuppen Not sure which one will get it :)
 

mikeames

Senior Member
Location
Germantown MD
Occupation
Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
I am reading these post and it seems like people are pointing fingers at those who do not twist wires before the wire nut.....If you get shocked thats your fault not the person who put the wire nut on. I am not a "Turn the power off freak" but if you get shocked because a wire sprung apart, and then fell off a ladder, well then maybe you should reconsider your decision making process.

In addition to that if the wires are trimmed and the wire nut put on properly, the wires don't spring apart. Its not the product that fails its the installer.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mikeames said:
.....If you get shocked thats your fault not the person who put the wire nut on. I am not a "Turn the power off freak" but if you get shocked because a wire sprung apart, and then fell off a ladder, well then maybe you should reconsider your decision making process.

Well put.

One of the many reasons not to work hot is that you just don't know the skill of the person who did the work ahead of yourself.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
A properly istalled wire nut results in almost the same twist of the wires as you find when pretwisting. If the wires spring apart when you take the wire nut off, then it was not correctly installed. Note the wording in the instructions posted above.
... screw on until two twists are visible in the wire outside of the connector.
Don
 

John Valdes

Senior Member
Location
SC.
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I only pre-twist (solid wire) with linemans pliers when I have several conductors. And sometimes not at all.
Were wire nuts not designed to eliminate twisting and soldering? I think so.
To me it's like puting tape on a wire nut. If you need tape, this is not a situation where you would need wire nuts.

If you have the problem of the conductors seperating when removing wire nuts, why not just hold the wires together when removing.

Sometimes power cannot be removed, like in lighting for industry. That is when I hate the previous guy twisting the wires.
For me it is much easier and safer if the wires are not twisted.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
John Valdes said:
Sometimes power cannot be removed, like in lighting for industry.

That is an attitude we all (including myself) have to change.

It can always be removed as long as the management types are told there is no choice.

OSHA rarely allows hot work even with PPE.
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
I know that I am repeating myself on this topic, but:

1) It is _always_ possible to work hot safely, given sufficient _money_ for PPE and equipment. *

2) It is _always_ possible to shut down the equipment, given sufficient money for tolerating downtime/providing bypass, etc.

Being asked to work hot without sufficient safety hardware is all about the risk to your life being less valuable than the money in question.

*Note: I am being very expansive here, using the term 'work hot' to mean working on equipment without shutting it down. This may not mean 'working hot' in the sense of a person being exposed to energized conductors. 'PPE and Equipment' could include anything from line-workers tools and training, to hardware designed from the outset to be worked on without being exposed to live conductors, to futuristic robotic tools being guided from a safe distance.

On conductors coming apart: I've noticed that when wire-nuts are installed with the required 'twists showing up in the conductors after twisting', if the conductors are _stranded_ they still have a tendency to spring apart when opened. I like a loop of tape on the conductors a couple of inches down from the splice.

-Jon
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
winnie said:
I like a loop of tape on the conductors a couple of inches down from the splice.

-Jon

Well I hope you leave a nice "FLAG" so the next guy doesn't have to use a knife to get the tape off.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
John Valdes said:
Sometimes power cannot be removed, like in lighting for industry. That is when I hate the previous guy twisting the wires.
Why does this sound contradictory to me? :-?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
winnie said:
1) It is _always_ possible to work hot safely, given sufficient _money_ for PPE and equipment. *

Jon I have to disagree here. sometimes a task can not be done safely no matter how much PPE you have on / use etc.

It's not simply the shocks which are fairly easy to prevent it is the Arc flash thats energy may well go beyond the ability of any PPE to protect us from.

It's kind of like the bomb squad, they wear PPE and it may help or it may just keep things neat and tidy for easy clean up if something goes wrong.
 
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