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Thread: Dishwasher and Disposal wiring.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5

    Dishwasher and Disposal wiring.

    Hi Everyone. Say I am having a problem with the inspectors. I wired a Dishwasher and a Disposal on the same 20A ckt. The inspector says that I need seperate ckts to each of these. The dishwasher has a FLA of 9.6A with 2.7 of that being the motor The disposal has a FLA of 6.7 all of which is the motor. According to my calculation the total Current of these two is 17.975 A Any one tell me why I can't put these on the same Ckt. The Inspector sites article 210.23 (a) (2). However there are no other loads on this ckt.

    Stu Goforth
    Contractor
    Cheyenne, Wy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO NEC: 2014
    Posts
    15,474
    Stu, welcome to the forum.

    Chances are pretty good that the dishwasher's instructions call for a dedicated 15A or greater circuit, many of them do.

    As for the citation, ask the inspector to walk out the front door with the portable disposal, or the portable dishwasher, take your pick.

    I believe it's difficult to call them anything besides utilization equipment fastened in place.

    That said, if you win in a confrontation on this issue with a Cheyenne inspector, I will personally drive up there and give you a case of beer. I have not heard of anyone succeeding on this topic, and those guys have a reputation for not backing down regardless of how silly their perceived "violation" is.

    As a design practice, I always pull a multiwire circuit to the disposal/dishwasher. I'd recommend you do the same. Much better bang for the customer's buck.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    aspen,co.
    Posts
    4
    I come up with 18.7 which would still make it legal. NEC 430.24

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,236
    One of my inspectors was adament that the dishwasher and disposal required seperate circuits per the NEC. He actually took the code book home over the weekend just to prove me wrong. Monday he says "you know what I found?" "Nothing?" I said "Nothing. Why does everyone do it then?"

    Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's code. When I was in the trade we always put them on seperate circuits too. It was a long time before I realized that the load didn't justify it.

    I am the inspector therefore it shalt be done! Man I hate that attitude.
    I can build anything you want if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.

    There's no substitute for hard work....but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up trying to find one.

    John Childress
    Electrical Inspector
    IAEI / CEI / C10
    Certified Electrical Inspector

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    20
    On one of my jobs a new inspector asked to see the instructions for the dishwasher and showed me where it said "The electrical supply must be a 110–120 volts, 15 or 20 amp properly grounded circuit. No other appliance or outlets should be on this circuit."

    He said I needed to do a better job with the manufactures instructions per NEC 110.3. He said that he was going make a note he informed me and next time it would not be acceptable. He said if it happen again he would write it up and we would have to change it.

    I said thank you for pointing it out to me and would do it the way he wanted it next time. He was quick to inform me that it had nothing to do with what he wanted but what the code required.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5
    Hey I say Thank you to 81611 and Cowboy! I took your responces to our Chief Building Official and he finally agreed that this was not really a code violation. However he stated that seperate ckts is what his department wanted. I explained that when a customer "wants" something extra they usually pay for it, and if he was willing to pay for seperate ckts I would be happy to go install them. He declined my approach and let the installation stand as I did it. Again Thanks.

    Stu

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    2,388
    There also is nothing to stop you from putting them on individual 15 amp ckts either but there are those that will argue the point. I used to require 20 amps cause that's how I did it for 30 years untill I was asked to "show me"
    Unlimited Electric Contractor/Standard Electric Inspector/Traffic Signal Inspector/Highway Lighting and Level One Traffic Signal Installer.

    I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO NEC: 2014
    Posts
    15,474
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Goforth
    Hey I say Thank you to 81611 and Cowboy! I took your responces to our Chief Building Official and he finally agreed that this was not really a code violation.
    What, you didn't feel like showing him my response? I'm not working in Cheyenne again anytime soon, I'm not afraid.

    Glad it worked out for you. Unfortunately, the Chief Building Official is not an inspector, so I guess I'm off the hook for the beer. However, I do feel compelled to drive up there and give you the beer because you stood your ground, and with some of those guys it can be a challenge. At the very least, you get a "good job."

    I need to return to my usual custom of wagering 50¢.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    420
    dont forget that we cannot load a circuit to more than 80 percent of the OCD rating
    80 percent of a 20 amp breaker is 16 amps

    you could not put them both on the same circuit after all..



    just because its a 20 amp breaker doesnt mean you can draw 19.7 amps or whatever on it... it will trip within about 20 mins at that kind of load

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,941
    Quote Originally Posted by izak
    dont forget that we cannot load a circuit to more than 80 percent of the OCD rating
    80 percent of a 20 amp breaker is 16 amps

    you could not put them both on the same circuit after all.. ...
    What is the code reference?

    just because its a 20 amp breaker doesnt mean you can draw 19.7 amps or whatever on it... it will trip within about 20 mins at that kind of load
    I only run my Disposer for seconds at a time and very seldom with the Dishwasher operating.
    Norb
    My Boss is a Tyrant and my Employee is an Idiot.

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