securing NM cable

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Electron_Sam78

Senior Member
Location
Palm Bay, FL
The requirement for securing MN cable according to art. 334.30 says that it must be secured within 12" of an outlet box. My question is this: Is the measurement of 12" along the cable length? For instance, I'm in the habit of making a loop just before entering the box just in case more wire is needed later on (see my drawing) http://www.picfury.com/2n/NMelecbox-2.html . Would the code require stapling 12" up the stud from the edge of the box or 12" following the length of cable?
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Like this? I sometimes call this "RotoZip Insurance".

boxslack.jpg

Photos courtesy Warren Goodrich, Shelby County IN inspector
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I believe its wire length.You should be able to comply and still have loop.Or you could make extra money with a back charge to drywall company when they get hit.They will learn fast.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
It doesn't specify how the measurement is to be taken. Until it does, if the staple is within the required dimension from the box, I maintain it's legal. When they add in "as measured along the cable sheath" language to that section, I'll change my mind. Just so we're clear, I agree that it is ugly, but probably legal.
 

marissa2

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
In the 2005 handbook under 334.30 (A) there is both a FPN and a explanation of 334.30. The FPN tell you to go to 314.17(C) for support where nonmetallic boxes are used, which talks about a single gang boxes not larger than 2 1/4 x 4 mounted in walls or ceilings, and where the cable is fastened within 8 in of the box measured along the sheath and where the sheath extends through a cable knockout not less then 1/4 in, securing the cable to the box shall not be required. In this exception it tells you to measure along the sheath. I also have a copy of the Illustrated Guide to the National Electrical Code and it shows a picture measuring from the box to the staple as a straight line. I really don't know this one I have done myself and never had any problems with it.
Lou
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
marissa2 said:
... In this exception it tells you to measure along the sheath. I also have a copy of the Illustrated Guide to the National Electrical Code and it shows a picture measuring from the box to the staple as a straight line.
Indeed, there are places where you're required to measure along the cable sheath, and places where that language is omitted. I have to conclude that where these words are not present, "as the crow flies" measurement is permitted.
 

andinator

Senior Member
Location
Lilburn Georgia
I often put "service" loops on romex not so much at switch boxes but always in a pancake and recess cans. The pancake for the dry wallers and the recess cans for the homeowners who for what ever reason didn't like the location. I've never been redtagged in ATL for this so I don't have a definitive answer, However ,I have had a boss question me hard about it... :cool:
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
I think Marc pretty much summed it up with the wording of the code.... I too leave extra wire at pancake boxes and any other box I think the sheet rocker may hit...
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I usually leave slack at recessed cans and sconce/vanity locations.

Last week a GC called me(job I am already working) ...can you move the one can to the next bay and over a bit....sure, no problem ~ the slack left behind was enough to only require repair to the two locations instead of 3 locations.

I also like to feed all the countertop outlets opposite from where the panel is ..ie, panel in basement, outlets get feed from above ....this allows ample "wiggle room" should the rough layout not match the actual layout.
 

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
I would have to agree with trevor on this one. Why would you not consider the length of the wire. Just cause the staple is 12" away that dosent mean I can leave a 4' loop does it or am i reading 334.30(B)(2) wrong? And not only that i never leave a loop like that on a box and almost never had a problem. A good sheet rocker wont have his blade set to deep anyway. and if he cuts your wire whats a little sheet rock between "friends".Plus think of the wire you are wasting. If my boss saw me do that he would put his foot so far up my butt i would be able to taste his shoe polish. Thats my two cents anyway.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
tonyou812 said:
I would have to agree with trevor on this one. Why would you not consider the length of the wire. Just cause the staple is 12" away that dosent mean I can leave a 4' loop does it or am i reading 334.30(B)(2) wrong?
You can measure along the sheath if you want to, but it doesn't seem to be required. With the present wording, you could leave a 4' loop and it would comply with 334.30.
 

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
too shae mow sha ree, but you have to admit your bending the rule a bit marc, And the other thing that bothers me about these types of set ups is trying to get a snake into one of those boxes for future additions. Lots of unnecassary wire to try to navigate through. Know what i mean.
 
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mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
tonyou812 said:
too shae mow sha ree, but you have to admit your bending the rule a bit marc, .
How can you bend a rule that you're complying with to the letter?

I will say that my slack isn't anywhere near as dramatic as the pictures. Those photo's were selected specifically to generate comments and to demonstrate what I feel is a legal worst case scenario.
 

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Marc all that i am saying is that if you start allowing over the aloted amount of wire(which is 12") you are opening up Pandora's box to everyones interpetations of what is ok. Your saying that I just use a "little loop" but ive seen guys use more that a little and quite frankly it looks a little vo tech/homeownery to me. But thats just me. Think about it why would they state 12' to a box and 4 1/2 of unsupported to a luminare. Why would they make that sort of distinction? I know in reallity its really not that big of a deal a few inches here and there but I have had inspectors give me a hard time with stuff like this , because I cant always check all my guys work all the time when it comes to stuff like that.
 
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mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
tonyou812 said:
Marc all that i am saying is that if you start allowing over the aloted amount of wire(which is 12") you are opening up Pandora's box to everyones interpetations of what is ok.
Maybe so. Feel free to draft a code change proposal.

By the way, I'm 90% sure the installation in the photo's was done by students and 100% sure it passed the electrical inspection.
 

Electron_Sam78

Senior Member
Location
Palm Bay, FL
inspector23 said:
If they are only 2-3 inches, why not secure it at 9-10 inches and be done with it?????????

I usually secure it at about 6 inches from the top of the box which actually gives my about 9-10 inches along the cable. I've had no problems with passing my inspections, I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on the interpretation of that particular code and their practice of it.

Also, I've had at least a couple instances where the box needed to be moved a little or some idiot cut my wire back too short and I was glad I had that little loop I left. If care is taken on the loop, I really think it looks good as well as being very practical.
 

e57

Senior Member
I rarely leave extra wire, and if I do, I support it. From one side of the stud bay - to the other then back. If you're moving the box you need to open some rock anyway box most often.

If some rocker cuts a wire - well then that his tough luck IMO.
 
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