fire wall outlets

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cowboyjwc

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An EC messing with a firewall, is to a GC, what him working on your wiring, is to most of you guys.

Plus installing a code violation is against the law, at least in this state.

"It shall be unlawful for a person, firm, or corporation to erect, construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, improve, remove, convert, or demolish, equip, use, occupy, or maintain any building, structure, or building service equipment, or cause or permit the same to be done in violation of this code and the technical codes."

Fire walls work, I have seen them work, they are there for a reason. No one outlet is so necessary in a commercial or industrial building that it is necessary to risk the lives of the occupants just because you don't want to run wiremold down the walls.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
cowboyjwc said:
Fire walls work, I have seen them work, they are there for a reason. No one outlet is so necessary in a commercial or industrial building that it is necessary to risk the lives of the occupants just because you don't want to run wiremold down the walls.
Yeah, but there is at least one legal way to install a receptacle flush in a fire wal and not break any codes and maintain the rating of the assembly.
 

roger

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Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
mdshunk said:
Yeah, but there is at least one legal way to install a receptacle flush in a fire wal and not break any codes and maintain the rating of the assembly.

There's more than one way to legally do it. :)

Roger
 

roger

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Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
And everything in the Carlon test was installed per the UL Fire Resistance standard including;
The electrical boxes shall be attached to the studs or joists using two nails, hangers or brackets.


Electrical outlet boxes installed, less than 24 inches apart, on opposite sides of staggered wood stud walls
shall be separated by approved fire-stopping materials as specified in the applicable building code sections.



Roger
 

M. D.

Senior Member
roger said:
And everything in the Carlon test was installed per the UL Fire Resistance standard including;


Roger

Yeah, I know , just passing on information.

I think the issue is more of a "it needs to attach to the studs and or joists " and not so much the fact that they are metal vs. plastic .., I have used boxes similar to the ones Mark posted they are easy to install after the wall is constructed and have the propper listing, no need for old work boxes , of any type ,relying on the fire rated assembly for support.
 
nyerinfl said:
Doesn't it seem a little crazy that something like that can be prohibited without any alternative legal method? I've got a job now that I'm going to cut boxes into the firewall, as it would be way too much of a pain in the... to do it any other way, since there really isn't any anyway.


It seems to me you are really saying, "I have not investigated how to do this legally, so I will install it illegally and hope for the best". As you can already see, there are other methods to make this a legal (and safe) method. Inappropriate installation of electrical work in a firewall is not the same as missing a receptacle on a wall space...this could lead to someone(s) injury or death. Sometimes we have to stretch to get out of our shell and keep up with the newer technology. Also, the customer depends on our professionalism to make the proper installation. In the past, this install would most likely have required the help of a GC/carpenter. Today, there are electrical alternatives.


Marc
Nice picture of a new product - thanks.
 

cowboyjwc

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Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
mdshunk said:
Yeah, but there is at least one legal way to install a receptacle flush in a fire wal and not break any codes and maintain the rating of the assembly.

Yes I agree, I had already said that and you showed one way, but the one post made it sound like it was to much trouble to do it right and was just going to cut them in and hope for the best.
 

nyerinfl

Senior Member
Location
Broward Co.
Just as an update, I did consider my options and ended up cutting open the wall and mounting to the structure due to the influences I got from here. You guys are saving lives :smile: , however I will still admit the lack of alternatives to this situation is still under my skin, instead of tamper proof receptacles manufacturers should come up with things that we actually need. And Pierre, I did end up complying with all the fire reqs. I could find with structural mounting and fireblankets etc. It took longer but oh well, next time the cust. will be charged extra. Live and learn...
 
nyerinfl said:
Just as an update, I did consider my options and ended up cutting open the wall and mounting to the structure due to the influences I got from here. You guys are saving lives :smile: , however I will still admit the lack of alternatives to this situation is still under my skin, instead of tamper proof receptacles manufacturers should come up with things that we actually need. And Pierre, I did end up complying with all the fire reqs. I could find with structural mounting and fireblankets etc. It took longer but oh well, next time the cust. will be charged extra. Live and learn...



I was harsher in my response than I should have been. I am glad that you decided to install the boxes the way you did, that is what separates a real good electrician from the "busy bees" that come out of the big box stores.
 
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