Light switch location?

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Maybel this has come up before, but I've always thought it odd the NEC does not make any requirements about the location of light switches. 210.70(1) states "At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom." 210.70(3) requires the switch for a crawl space to be near the point of entry, but I can't find anything about the rest of the house. Does this mean I could legally install a light switch across the room from the door or on the ceiling? (Not that I would) This had always bothered me. Maybe I'm just missing something.
 

infinity

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electriciangirl said:
Does this mean I could legally install a light switch across the room from the door or on the ceiling?


Yup, you could install them where ever you prefer.
 
infinity said:
Yup, you could install them where ever you prefer.


Doesn't this seem wrong? Why bother requiring a light switch if it doesn't have to be near the entry point of the room. I suppose this is much like the question of whether a lighting outlet without a light fulfills that requirement, but I find it hard to believe that a light switch installed on the ceiling is not a code violation.
 

infinity

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It does seem rather odd. The reality is that most of them do go near the room entrance so a written code requirement is probably not needed. What if a room had two entrances, where would you put the switch?
 
infinity said:
It does seem rather odd. The reality is that most of them do go near the room entrance so a written code requirement is probably not needed. What if a room had two entrances, where would you put the switch?


On the ceiling, of course. Just kidding. A switch at each point of entry. You know, one of them 3-way switchy things.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
electriciangirl said:
Doesn't this seem wrong?

No, not all, check out 90.1(A), 90.1(B) and especially 90.1(C).

Why bother requiring a light switch if it doesn't have to be near the entry point of the room.

What if the design of the room does not allow that placement, then we would need exceptions to the rule further fattening up the code.


I suppose this is much like the question of whether a lighting outlet without a light fulfills that requirement,

It does.

The section requires a lighting outlet as defined in Article 100 not a luminaire.


but I find it hard to believe that a light switch installed on the ceiling is not a code violation.

Well that is a violation as it must be a wall switch.

But you could put all the wall switches beside the panel. ;)
 

iwire

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electriciangirl said:
You know, one of them 3-way switchy things.

The NEC does not require 3 or 4 ways in any location.

Here is the real deal and I stole this from another member because I feel it is very true.

More or less they said..

'A electrician who wires to the bare bones minimum code will probably not have many repeat customers.'
 

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
Light switch location

Light switch location

I think (or hope) the people that write the NEC are assuming if you are smart enough to read thier book you are probably smart enough not to put light switches in the cieling. I hope they never decide that common sense is something they need to regulate. Where they light switch goes is pretty much up to the HO. It is a very good idea to never have to walk past the light to get to the switch.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
iaov said:
It is a very good idea to never have to walk past the light to get to the switch.


I just wired 8 apartments, they each had two rooms, They did not get 3 ways between the rooms, so they are going to be doing some walking...:grin:
 
iwire:

I agree with all statements you made, and I hope you are not trying to imply anything. The code is not an instruction manual, this I know. And wiring bare bones is not my method. But why does the code make a requirement for a crawl space light switch and not a habitable room. I guess I was making an extreme example when I used a ceiling location as a switch location, trying to use a little humor. My point was a switch could be installed in a completely unreadily accessible location and not be a code violation.
 

iwire

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Massachusetts
electriciangirl said:
iwire:

I agree with all statements you made, and I hope you are not trying to imply anything. The code is not an instruction manual,

No I was not, but I realized after my post it may have come across that way, for that I apologize.

I was actually trying to point out the line about the NEC not being a design specification.....not the part about an instruction manual. :smile:


And wiring bare bones is not my method.

Not many people that bother to hang out in a forum like this are bare bones folks.

But I feel we should all know what the minimums are in case we are in a situation that requires a short cut or two.


But why does the code make a requirement for a crawl space light switch and not a habitable room.

It's a good question and I do not know the answer.

I will mention that the code is not 'planned' it evolves every three years so we end up with sections of code that seem to be heading in different directions.


I guess I was making an extreme example when I used a ceiling location as a switch location, trying to use a little humor.

I understood your point but that in fact would be a code violation.

My point was a switch could be installed in a completely unreadily accessible location and not be a code violation.

Switches are required to be 'readily accessible' by 404.8(A), but they could be located in another room or even another floor.

Has this been a problem?

Do you see ECs installing the switches in locations that make no sense?

My basic feeling is that the NEC should say as little as possible about placement because as soon as they put limitations in place you end up on a job where the restrictions do not fit the job at hand.

Now in my opinion the NEC should not be in the business of requiring any outlets or switches to be installed. IMO the NEC should tell us the requirements how to install these items if we choose to but they should not require the outlets.

Read again the NECs purpose in 90.1(A) and I think you might see what I mean.

There are other codes, building, housing, mechanical codes etc that require lighting and outlets, IMO the NEC should have stuck with the installation requirements.
 
Wow, you guys are touchy. I think there are plenty of things in the code that cover things that should be common sense. If there were a code requirement indicating where a switch should be, would you guys think that it shouldn't be there?
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
electriciangirl said:
See 210.70(2)(c)

If a stair-way has more than 6 risers, a 3-way would be needed.

I am familiar with that section and it does not require 3 or 4 ways to be used.

You could have a light on each level controlled by a single pole switch on each level.

Would I do it that way?

Probably not but I am glad I have options.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
electriciangirl said:
Wow, you guys are touchy. I think there are plenty of things in the code that cover things that should be common sense. If there were a code requirement indicating where a switch should be, would you guys think that it shouldn't be there?


Absolutely... The NEC is not suppose to be a design manual...
 

jetlag

Senior Member
odd location

odd location

This question has been up before and recieved many replies. I have no doubt that a wall switch location is not specified or someone would have found it by now. Had a job a while back where the owner wanted all the switches on the oposite wall from the entry and controlled by motion switches so light would come on as soon as door moved or before entering if door was open. The inspector gave me a weird look and went to his truck and made a phone call before signing off. Will never know what the call was about.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
electriciangirl said:
If there were a code requirement indicating where a switch should be, would you guys think that it shouldn't be there?

I would say I don't want any code sections added without some sort of history of a problem with the current code.

Again I ask have you noticed people installing the bedroom light switch at the far corner of the room 6" off the floor?

It would be legal per the NEC but is anyone trying that?

Are customers saying oh thats great?

I once wired a 30 unit apartment building with very small bathrooms. I chose to place the light switch outside the bathroom. If I had not down that the switch would have practically been in the shower or over the sink.

Had the code said the location must be inside the room I could not have done that and the result IMO would have been a less safe installation.
 

Energize

Senior Member
Location
Milky Way Galaxy
jetlag said:
This question has been up before and recieved many replies. I have no doubt that a wall switch location is not specified or someone would have found it by now. Had a job a while back where the owner wanted all the switches on the oposite wall from the entry and controlled by motion switches so light would come on as soon as door moved or before entering if door was open. The inspector gave me a weird look and went to his truck and made a phone call before signing off. Will never know what the call was about.

Possibilities:

1. Thought of a new place for lunch and wanted to share it with fellow inspectors

2. The installation reminded him of the funniest joke he ever heard and wanted to tell spouse before he forgot it - again.

3. He has a new I-Phone and wanted to go back to his vehicle, get on the web, and look up this forum to see if he could find a thread to confirm compliance with NEC.

4. He had his phone on vibrate and received the latest alert on Britney Spears and had to check it out.

5. Just realized he forgot to place his bet on the NFL games this week and wanted to get them in before the deadline.

:grin: :grin: :grin:
 
Energize said:
Possibilities:

1. Thought of a new place for lunch and wanted to share it with fellow inspectors

2. The installation reminded him of the funniest joke he ever heard and wanted to tell spouse before he forgot it - again.

3. He has a new I-Phone and wanted to go back to his vehicle, get on the web, and look up this forum to see if he could find a thread to confirm compliance with NEC.

4. He had his phone on vibrate and received the latest alert on Britney Spears and had to check it out.

5. Just realized he forgot to place his bet on the NFL games this week and wanted to get them in before the deadline.

:grin: :grin: :grin:
6. He was calling the local female inspector to see what she thought about it.
 
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