Can anyone explain something to me?

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dwellselectric

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I dont understand something. Why can you fish romex through walls but you can't run romex in PVC? I dont understand why you can't do that I mean I looked in the code book but can't find anything saying that you can't run romex in PVC but the AHJ said it is not allowed?!?!?
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
There is nothing in the 2005 NEC prohibiting NM in PVC raceways in dry locations.

You can not install NM outside or underground in PVC because it is not listed for wet locations.
 

tallguy

Senior Member
dSilanskas said:
I dont understand something. Why can you fish romex through walls but you can't run romex in PVC? I dont understand why you can't do that I mean I looked in the code book but can't find anything saying that you can't run romex in PVC but the AHJ said it is not allowed?!?!?
Actually, there are some circumstances in which protection (not necessarily PVC) is required. See 334.15(B).

Before iwire jumps on you, I'll bet that it's the inspector that said this, not the AHJ per se.:rolleyes:
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
tallguy said:
Before iwire jumps on you, I'll bet that it's the inspector that said this, not the AHJ per se.:rolleyes:

I just feel it's an important thing to keep in mind, only AHJs can 'interpret' give 'special permission' and 'approve' items.

90.4
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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M_J_C said:
Is the PVC in the ground?

Oops, iwire got in before I hit the send button. The wet location restriction would be my guess, too.

It does not matter if the PVC is in the ground. NM cable is not allowed on the exterior in conduit, in the ground or above ground. Indoors is not an issue.
 

tallguy

Senior Member
iwire said:
I just feel it's an important thing to keep in mind, only AHJs can 'interpret' give 'special permission' and 'approve' items.
I know... it's just that the term "AHJ" gets used and abused around here regularly. Once in a while you go on a bender about it and it gives me a chuckle. Your point is well taken!

OTOH, the inspectors can at times be doing just those three items you list above, regardless of what the AHJ says.:smile:
 

M_J_C

Member
Dennis Alwon said:
It does not matter if the PVC is in the ground. NM cable is not allowed on the exterior in conduit, in the ground or above ground. Indoors is not an issue.
True.
A lot of these violations occur when NM cable is pulled through PVC to a floor box. Sometimes we forget that conduit in or under a concrete slab that is in direct contact with the earth is considered a wet location by the NEC.
 

dwellselectric

Inactive, Email Never Verified
No the romex was going to be installed indoors in a pvc chase from attic to basement. The inspector said that romex is not allowed to be installed in pvc in any situation unless its UF romex. He said it was because there would be no supports but if you can fish wire in walls without supports what is the difference is there? I dunno perhaps I am not thinking correct:confused:
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Take a look at 352.22 second paragraph, the one that starts with ....Cables shall be permitted

Then take a look at 334.15(B)
 

tallguy

Senior Member
dSilanskas said:
No the romex was going to be installed indoors in a pvc chase from attic to basement. The inspector said that romex is not allowed to be installed in pvc in any situation unless its UF romex. He said it was because there would be no supports...
The answer to that particular question is in 334.30 -- last sentence: "Sections of cable protected from physical damage by raceway shall not be required to be secured within the raceway."
 

jetlag

Senior Member
n m in pvc often

n m in pvc often

It is very common in Ga especially on remodeling older houses to install a new 200 a surface mounted outside panel usually on a covered porch or exterior wall. From there all the home runs for the house are put in a 2" pvc either up to the attic or under house. I have never seen an inspector question this and it would be silly to do so. A person would have to wire the whole house with u f . And yes we have all seen what the code says about that if someone wants to nic pic. This pvc is in short section and open on one end at crawl space for good air flow . Anyway n m is ok for damp but not wet locations
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Here is the problem.Some places require inspectors to pass a test while others dont.The ones that manage to pass a test might still not know enough to do the job.They go on how they use to do it and assume that was the only right way.How to fix problem is demand code number and everytime you get a tag call the chief.Your sending a message to that inspector that if you think your right he will be talking to his boss.Now he thinks twice about tagging your jobs unless he is sure he is right and has code number.It works i have done it and i win.No more bull
 

roger

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Location
Fl
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Retired Electrician
The inspector is wrong.

352.22 Number of Conductors
The number of conductors shall not exceed that permitted by the percentage fill specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.
Cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use is not prohibited by the respective cable articles. The number of cables shall not exceed the allowable percentage fill specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.

In interior installations there is nothing in article 334 prohibiting installing NM in PVC so it is allowed.

Roger
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
jetlag said:
From there all the home runs for the house are put in a 2" pvc either up to the attic or under house.

Thats no nipple. Here you would have to get into a long discussion about derating with the AHJ.
 
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busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Type NM is not prohibited from "Wet Locations" it just cannot be "subject to excessive moisture". I sure wish I knew what in the world that means? Where's the AHJ when you need them?

Mark
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
busman said:
Type NM is not prohibited from "Wet Locations" it just cannot be "subject to excessive moisture". I sure wish I knew what in the world that means? Where's the AHJ when you need them?

Mark



Don't you agree that a wet location would subject it to excessive moisture?
 
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