Wall Space

Status
Not open for further replies.

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
infinity said:
I see your thought process but is a box around a column a wall?

It would be nice if it were that easy to get an inspector to agree. The fact that we all know is, like cops, some inspectors go into the job because they like telling people how they are smarter then you and "you have no choice but to listen to me." It only takes one jerk out of 50 great inspectors, to get all 50 a bad rap.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
iwire said:
He said when he scaled the locations off the prints we were off on most all of them.
I don't locate receptacle symbols "to scale" on the prints, and I make sure there is a statement somewhere (e.g., in the specs) that says so. I want you to chose the exact locations, and I'll leave it to you to make sure your chosen locations meet code minimums (the specs say that as well). :D
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
charlie b said:
I don't locate receptacle symbols "to scale" on the prints,

I can not imagine anyone would, I doubt the EE did on this job, it was just the GCs foreman that assumed that they where scaled. Heck in some scales a receptacle symbol scales to 4' across. ;)

These where simple straight forward small offices, one duplex more or less centered on each wall with the desk wall getting a V/D drop... done. This guy thought we were building a swiss watch. :roll:
 

ITO

Senior Member
Location
Texas
480sparky said:
If there's no dimension given for the location, I go to the nearest stud. If they want it so many feet/inches from whatever, they need to put that on the prints. Otherwise, they can pay me to move 425 boxes.

Bingo! Also, you can put a CR in for a SK issued after contract if there is an impact for the directive (aka clarification). I had this happen recently were the SK came out long after I installed the work.
 

dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
acrwc10 said:
It would be nice if it were that easy to get an inspector to agree. The fact that we all know is, like cops, some inspectors go into the job because they like telling people how they are smarter then you and "you have no choice but to listen to me." It only takes one jerk out of 50 great inspectors, to get all 50 a bad rap.

Ouch! and so true my friend. Kinda like bad "ego trippin" so called "Electricians" If they are so bold to use that trade title.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
mdshunk said:
You guys have really had an inspector ding you for an inch or two? :confused: I know, 6 feet is 6 feet, but if I got taggged for 6 feet, 2 inches, I'd have to ask myself what I did to tick off the inspector.

Here's a wall space measurement I see violated all the time. Carpenters often box out posts and lally columns in basement finishes. If the post is at least 6" on each side when boxed out (they almost always are), it seems you'd need a receptacle on that boxed in post.

My thought on it is this, that's the difference of which side of the stud you put it on and if you know six feet is the maximum why try to strech it? What are you gaining by moving it 2" farther down the? It's not like you'll be saving on the number of boxes you have to install.

m73214 said:
Does " wall space " begin at the door frame or at the point where the door is at the full open position on the hinge side?

Kind of depends on the room. If it's perfectly square I measure from the door fram because we're measuring at rough and don't always know which way the door is swinging. If it's one of those rooms that have a little alcove I will measure from where I think the door will swing. No sense putting an outlet on a wall space where you could never put anything.
 
Last edited:

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
ITO said:
Bingo! Also, you can put a CR in for a SK issued after contract if there is an impact for the directive (aka clarification). I had this happen recently were the SK came out long after I installed the work.

On the flip side of the issue, I had one job where the specs only give me 1/8" tolerance. For example, if the box was marked on the prints to be 4-feet 2-1/2" from the corner, I needed to be between 4' 2-3/8" to 4' 2-5/8". Why? I don't know. (He's on third, and I don't give a darn!) Seemed kindy picky for a piece of equipment 7-feet wide.
 

dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
John, I hope you are not refering to the 24" + wall space possibly behind a door swing? Perfect place for one (Receptacle Outlet). Furniture uses up other spaces in a habitable room and that would be a great place to plug in a vac.....is the intent of 210.52(A)(2)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
dcspector said:
John, I hope you are not refering to the 24" + wall space possibly behind a door swing? Perfect place for one (Receptacle Outlet). Furniture uses up other spaces in a habitable room and that would be a great place to plug in a vac.....is the intent of 210.52(A)(2)

Actually I was, but any electrician that is trying to save that $5 is going to be 4' beyond that door anyways.:D
 

Rewire

Senior Member
iwire said:
I can not imagine anyone would, I doubt the EE did on this job, it was just the GCs foreman that assumed that they where scaled. Heck in some scales a receptacle symbol scales to 4' across. ;)

These where simple straight forward small offices, one duplex more or less centered on each wall with the desk wall getting a V/D drop... done. This guy thought we were building a swiss watch. :roll:
Sounds like he had a new ruler to play with
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
iwire said:
I had a GCs Foreman try to tell me I had to relocate about 300 receptacles and maybe 125 switches. He said when he scaled the locations off the prints we were off on most all of them.

There's a reason that they specify the scale on the print. It's not meant for you to say that well I'll go to the next or nearest stud. That's just poor workmanship IMO. There are plenty of box brackets that allow a box to be mounted anywhere between studs.

iwire said:
I explained we go by the print and then to the nearest stud location, he did not buy it and went up the chain to complain, I never heard any more about it, I suspect his boss laughed at him just like I had.

I say you got lucky.
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
chevyx92 said:
There's a reason that they specify the scale on the print.

Who scales off an E page. Not on my job. Thats what the A pages ar for. If theres no specific elevation reflected on an A page, nearest stud is fine.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
chris kennedy said:
Who scales off an E page. Not on my job. Thats what the A pages ar for. If theres no specific elevation reflected on an A page, nearest stud is fine.
Wow I would hate to see you lay out a job then. My "A" pages don't have the electrical layed all out.
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
stickboy1375 said:
You NEVER, EVER scale off an E page...
I've always thought this was common knowledge.

chevyx92, when an outlet needs to be placed in an exact location, it had better be reflected on an elevation and you would find that on an A page.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
chris kennedy said:
I've always thought this was common knowledge.

chevyx92, when an outlet needs to be placed in an exact location, it had better be reflected on an elevation and you would find that on an A page.
Like I said I would hate to see how you lay out a job then. There is a reason for scales on all the drawings. I'm not saying I dont agree with a specific height or exact measurement for a specific placement of a piece of equipment. But if I scale a recep to be 4' off a wall and I go to the next and the recep location doesn't work out then it would be my fault and anyone elses fault. Done this for years, been taught this and teach this. If it's done by the print you can't go wrong.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
chevyx92 said:
Like I said I would hate to see how you lay out a job then. There is a reason for scales on all the drawings. I'm not saying I dont agree with a specific height or exact measurement for a specific placement of a piece of equipment. But if I scale a recep to be 4' off a wall and I go to the next and the recep location doesn't work out then it would be my fault and anyone elses fault. Done this for years, been taught this and teach this. If it's done by the print you can't go wrong.


Don't do that off a residential print, you will never meet code... they are for decoration only and there is always a FPN telling you so.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
stickboy1375 said:
Don't do that off a residential print, you will never meet code... they are for decoration only and there is always a FPN telling you so.
Agreed and I wasn't talking about residential. You're right they always have a FPN telling you that. I was referrign to commercial work which is what I do all the time.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
I've seem my fair share....

I've seem my fair share....

Well, Charlie says that scaling is not required, Chris uses the A Series, Stickboyboy never uses the E Page. Happy Halloween !

The small jobs I see, they don't pay to coordinate between the various Professionals, the Larger jobs seems that someone is always out of the coordination of Drawings. Running conduit go with the HVAC ( I can't believe I typed that...) I have to work off the E series in commerical.

Seems like the electrical was left out of the Coordination of my present job cause eveything we are to install there now some huge duct there!
No RFI relief here, It's, "Right, Fit It".

Mash to fit bend to suit ...


EDITED in:
I understand Charlie's statement !, I assume the others are joking!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top