Office lighting hiccup.

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StreamlineGT

Senior Member
I went to look at a job the other day, and the guy is looking to make one big room, once used for manufactured furniture partitions, now into 14 individual offices. He said to relocate the lights that were in the way of the framed partitions, but then makes a surprising statement, at least to me.

"What we are going to do is put a switch in each office to run each light, but keep the switches at either door."

The switches at either door run ALL the lights, and he wants to put a switch in line so office personel can shut off their own light if they want to, but if someone flips the switch at the door, they all go out.

All I need is a code article to show this guy that this shouldn't be done. I've spoken to the inspector, but I am not going to tell him that, and he says 210.70. I am sure he is going to fight it by saying, "but each office has a switch". Any other reference material will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Brendon
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
There is no NEC article or section that would prohibit this.

Roger
 

StreamlineGT

Senior Member
e57 said:
Some day soon your energy codes may even require it... They might now....

I'm digging out my T24 manual now.....

See page 11-12 http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publications/CEC-400-2005-006/chapters_4q/5_Indoor_Lighting.pdf

The inspector still says what the GC proposed is a no-no. I think he is going to make me re-wire all the lights in the area to be switched only from the individual office spaces. I don't really care at this point, this job is T&M, but an angry GC, makes a angry work environment. That, and my timetable is a tight one. Looks like more time and a half for me. I am meeting with the inspector this afternoon to discuss, along with the GC. That should be fun.....
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
raider1 said:
My office lights hum, but I have never heard them hiccup.:)

By the way I agree with the others.

Chris

You have to turn the music down if you want to hear them hiccup:grin:

I agree that I don't see a code violation. But I see the inspectors concern. Someone is in their office in the middle of the building, when someone else leaves and turns off all the lights.

But code required lighting is really for emergency egress. And I guess we assume that no one will sit there in the dark and wait for a fire to start before realizing they can't see their way out.

Steve
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
steve66 said:
But I see the inspectors concern. Someone is in their office in the middle of the building, when someone else leaves and turns off all the lights.

It may be a concern but it is also common for us to have light switches in offices supplied from contactor panels controlled by an energy management system.

If someone works late the lights may go off, typically override buttons are located in common spaces.
 

jim dungar

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Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
StreamlineGT said:
I think he is going to make me re-wire all the lights in the area to be switched only from the individual office spaces.

Will he also require that each individual office space be served by its own branch lighting circuit?
 

StreamlineGT

Senior Member
Update: He will not make me change the switching, as long as there are two or three lights in the main corridor that are on all the time, or key switched. I am just going to do that. It is all about egress, and that is all he is concerned with.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
StreamlineGT said:
Update: He will not make me change the switching, as long as there are two or three lights in the main corridor that are on all the time, or key switched. I am just going to do that. It is all about egress, and that is all he is concerned with.

And the fire chief would required that anyways.Does this place not have night lights ?
 

steve066

Senior Member
Jim W in Tampa said:
And the fire chief would required that anyways.Does this place not have night lights ?

The emergency lights don't have to come on unless there is a power failure. Other than that, I don't know of any requirement to have "night lights".

I think the code still leaves the possiblity of being left in the dark. I don't know if the people writing the codes have done this intentionally, or not. Maybe its just something that hasn't been proposed yet.

Steve
 

jerm

Senior Member
Location
Tulsa, Ok
steve066 said:
The emergency lights don't have to come on unless there is a power failure. Other than that, I don't know of any requirement to have "night lights".

I think the code still leaves the possiblity of being left in the dark. I don't know if the people writing the codes have done this intentionally, or not. Maybe its just something that hasn't been proposed yet.

Steve

The fire codes, in some situations, require 11 lux of lighting along the egress path in the event of a fire alarm. But that's another book, not the nec.

Jeremy
Tulsa, Ok
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
steve066 said:
The emergency lights don't have to come on unless there is a power failure. Other than that, I don't know of any requirement to have "night lights".

I think the code still leaves the possiblity of being left in the dark. I don't know if the people writing the codes have done this intentionally, or not. Maybe its just something that hasn't been proposed yet.

Steve
So what changes here if you do it with a switch in his/her office thats not controlled by the main switch ?They still are in dark getting out.Almost all prints i see have 24/7 NL
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Jim W in Tampa said:
So what changes here if you do it with a switch in his/her office thats not controlled by the main switch ?They still are in dark getting out.Almost all prints i see have 24/7 NL

Jim, most night lighting in "Unoccupied" buildings is only a design consideration.

Egress lighting must be illuminated only when the building is occupied.

Roger
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
roger said:
Jim, most night lighting in "Unoccupied" buildings is only a design consideration.

Egress lighting must be illuminated only when the building is occupied.

Roger

Correct, here is what the 2006 IBC states:

1006.1 Illumination required. The means of egress, including
the exit discharge, shall be illuminated at all times the building
space served by the means of egress is occupied.
Exceptions:
1. Occupancies in Group U.
2. Aisle accessways in Group A.
3. Dwelling units and sleeping units in Groups R-1, R-2
and R-3.
4. Sleeping units of Group I occupancies.

Also here is the section on the amount of illumination that is required:

1006.2 Illumination level. The means of egress illumination
level shall not be less than 1 foot-candle (11 lux) at the walking
surface level.
Exception: For auditoriums, theaters, concert or opera halls
and similar assembly occupancies, the illumination at the
walking surface level is permitted to be reduced during performances
to not less than 0.2 foot-candle (2.15 lux), provided
that the required illumination is automatically
restored upon activation of a premises? fire alarm system
where such system is provided.

Chris
 

bcorbin

Senior Member
Does the building have to meet Ashrae 90.1 standards? If so, there is a violation of that, but nothing in IBC or NEC.
 
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