NEVER found problem??

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mdshunk said:
The short answer is 'Yes'. Intermittant problems buck the heck out of people.


I think thats what happen with the other electrical contractor , where the manufacturer said to just REPLACE everything. Aparently it was just easier and CHEAPER to do that than to try to pay for hours of TROUBLE shooting for an intermitted problem.

mdshunk, so it may not have been 'goofy' after all to replace everything. ;)
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
brother said:
mdshunk, so it may not have been 'goofy' after all to replace everything. ;)
Hard to say without a lot more information. I like to take a more logical approach to troubleshooting rather than just being a parts changer.
 
mdshunk said:
Hard to say without a lot more information. I like to take a more logical approach to troubleshooting rather than just being a parts changer.


I agree, but im pretty it was more economically wise to change 'parts' in this area. This contractor been doing it for over 30 years, they got a good rep.

I like thinking logically too, i guess thats why i come to this forum cause i always see something new.
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Im curious have you ever had a problem that you NEVER actually solved/found out why electrically.??


I had a little one last week as a matter of fact. I quickily narrowed down a short circuit in a residence and disconnected the offending wire but EVERYTHING still worked.


I triple checked all the lights/receps and went on my way.


Over the years I have fixed many things without knowing exactly how I did it. I HATE not knowing.
 
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jrannis

Senior Member
I had an "emergency" call to go to a restaurant and see the chef about a loud electrical noise when they turned on the garbage disposal. As soon as we turned it on I knew it was less than 60hz........ Water hammer. Water comes on via solenoid when the switch was turned on.
Had a very nice lunch too.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Energy-Miser said:
I had a service call on a set of HID parking lot lights. The circuit breaker they said would trip a couple of hours after the lights came on after dark.

In my experience that is usually the sign of insulation break down in either the conductors or the splices.

But don't worry, eventually it will fail to the point where you can use a standard continuity tester to find it. :grin:
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
mdshunk said:
If you can't find the problem, whatever it might be, you just don't own the right test equipment yet.

Why does this statement not surprise me? :D

Actually, I am the same way, although I don't have as many toys... I mean testers as Marc.
 

cschmid

Senior Member
Marc's love of toys (testing equipment) prompted me to check out all my toys and I discovered I have allot I only use once in blue moon..Me wonders what everyone finds as the most commonly used testing tools by us here??I will weigh in later as I look up brands and models of my tools..
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
I have NEVER NEVER not solved a problem that was electrical in nature. Had a few issues that were not electrical, software hardware issues, but in those cases I proved the electrical system was not the culprit.

But I have an added advantage, I have been doing this for a long time and have an army of experts I can rely on for help, small shops need to be willing to work with others.

I have many customers that are more than willing to pay for extra test equipment as need.
 
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acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
Energy-Miser said:
How about the appliance that was not all the way plugged in?

The short list, fuse not screwed all the way in,
light bulb not screwed all the way in,
plug strip under desk that on/off switch was shut off by foot,
fluorescent under cabinet lights not working from wall switch mother inlaw went around and shut off all lights from built in switch on fixtures,
GFI tripped in remote location,
customer replaced blown fuse with blown fuse ( from pile of blown fuses under fuse box ) :roll:
 

e57

Senior Member
iwire said:
In my experience that is usually the sign of insulation break down in either the conductors or the splices.

But don't worry, eventually it will fail to the point where you can use a standard continuity tester to find it. :grin:

Or the smoke may lead you there.... I went to one where another company could not find an intermitant parking lot light problem over the course of a month - yet the problem seemed obvious when I pulled into the lot. The little wafts of smoke from a christy box in front of the entrance to the walmart. The manager thought this was normal, (Like steam from a man-hole...) and the company before us never asked....

Turned out that water had been filling the box with non-water-proofed splices since the box was put in a few years before after a landscaper had hit a conduit with a ditch-witch. May not have been a problem if it were not for the location of the box - right next to the drain for most of the lot. Everytime it rained the box would fill, soak the conductors, drain and cook the insulation on the wiring in it as the water went down. It had a neat effect on the conducor insulation - it scorched down the insulation in level graduations like a water line on a shore. Somewhere I have a picture of this I think - buried in the deep recesses of this hard drive....

Anyway removed box - fixed conduit and re-pulled - hole filled, and pavement fixed problem gone.
 

Energy-Miser

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
360Youth said:
Do you have many customers that are willing to invest in that kind of troubleshooting. We usually give an HO, municipality, or local utility the option of some extensive "digging." But not too many of them want to spend the kind of moola it takes to find out why their lights are flickering. I agree that you shouldn't wait until it becomes a larger problem, larger fix, and worse, a larger safety issue, but you still have to convince them of that, especially if it is not showing itself while you are there.
If the customer, faced with a more thorough troubleshooting, says um..., I don't know, it may not be worth it, lets just leave it (without fixing it), then what about the time you have already spent? Personnally I feel awkward, charging for a problem solving that was not completed, but then again under this scenario, I have done all I could, it is the customer who does not want to go through with the completion of the job. What would anyone do in a case like this (charge the full amount for the time spent, give a break and charge less, or say well you don't owe me anything, since I haven't really solved the problem for you) ?
 

Energy-Miser

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
mdshunk said:
FYI... Three tools that are helpful in locating many types of intermittant problems:
1) Megger
2) DLRO
3) Load Bank
I haven't worked with one, but can imagine that a load bank would be very useful to have. What is the price range, and current / voltage range typically for these? e/m
 

wirebender

Senior Member
acrwc10 said:
The short list, fuse not screwed all the way in,
light bulb not screwed all the way in,
plug strip under desk that on/off switch was shut off by foot,
fluorescent under cabinet lights not working from wall switch mother inlaw went around and shut off all lights from built in switch on fixtures,
GFI tripped in remote location,
customer replaced blown fuse with blown fuse ( from pile of blown fuses under fuse box ) :roll:


3-way switch at the seldom-used end of a long hall stuck in between up and down.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
e57 said:
The little wafts of smoke from a christy box in front of the entrance to the walmart. The manager thought this was normal, (Like steam from a man-hole...)


:grin:

Manager: 'Oh that? Don't worry about it, I don't need you to fix that I want my lights fixed.'
 

jason

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
This is a fun thread.

The most aggravating part of troubleshooting IMO is the person who you're doing the work for isnt being honest with you. This happens most when the person you're doing the work for isnt paying the bill.

I went on a call once where the tenant had some lights not working. The owner contacted us to correct the problem. I went out and asked the routine questions..... How long have they been out, anyone been doing any work, etc. Anyway, I found the problem with the lighting circuit right away. Except, 2 lights that were hanging in the bathroom in front of the vanity still werent working.

The switch that operated the vanity light worked because the vanity lt came on. The other switch operated the fan, it too worked. I took the vanity down to see if the hanging lights were on with the vanity lt. I asked the tenant again, when was the last time these worked. She said they worked up until the same time the other lights went out. That was a burned fuse.

So I climb in the attic and its a mess. There were clothes everywhere, storage boxes piled 3 ft high, 100 degrees outside, no telling what was inside. So, I cant see any wire running to the hanging lights but there was plywood laying in the attic so I went back down and took down the 1st of the 2 lights. There was no wire in the box at all. Took down the 2nd light, no wire there either. Obviously the previous renter installed those lights just for looks.

I go and ask the tenant again, mam, when did you say those lights last worked? She again said they worked until recently. I advised that there was no wiring to the lights and begged her to call me if they ever came back on. After I told her there was no wiring she still insisted they worked until recently.

...............................................

Another time. A light that was installed in the front yard worked off a photocell. The light had stopped working and I was called out to fix it. What I found was the wiring for the wire was fed from a gfi (under he house). It wasnt right at the crawl space, it was in the center of the house. What idiot would do something like that?
 
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