My friend

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76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
A dear friend of mine wants a breaker panel instead of her fuse panels. She lives in a house that used to be serviced by two splits. She pays two electric bills. I am going to go over and put the service into a 200A service. New SE and panel. Sounds like most of it is two-wire. Therefore all GFCI breakers and and AFCI's for the bedrooms. I still do not not know how it grounds. How many of you say it's okay to install GFCI's instead of running new wiring?
They have never had any problems with fuses blowing. I figured new SE, meter, and 200A panel. I shall try to talk them into a gen. backup. They figured at least $300 in labor. I can do this in a day. I don't think I will charge anything, they are dear friends. How do you feel about servicing two-wire all protected by GFCI's?
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
If they are planning on living there for a long time to come I'd rewire it a couple room at a time. IMO it's well worth it.
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
They are planning on living there a long time. I told them any two-wire would have to be protected by more expensive breakers. They, the HO's, thought a circuit breaker replacement box would be a very simple fix, no new wire.
How do you feel about using GFCI's to protect all of the two-wire???
Can I cover my *ss?
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I'm not even sure I'd GFCI protect that's on existing 2-wire, so long as nobody changed any of them out for 3-wire recs. You can be asking for trouble, particulary if it's K&T, which was famous for picking up a neutral where ever they could get it. If anything, just run a couple new circuits to the kitchen and bathrooms during your upgrade, and call it good for now.
 

wireman71

Senior Member
I'd tell them to save the money for complete strip of the interior and remodel. If the wiring works now I wouldn't mess with it.
 
76nemo said:
They are planning on living there a long time. I told them any two-wire would have to be protected by more expensive breakers. They, the HO's, thought a circuit breaker replacement box would be a very simple fix, no new wire.
How do you feel about using GFCI's to protect all of the two-wire???
Can I cover my *ss?

As someone pointed out, those old 2 wire houses just picked up neutrals anywhere, (I know from first had experience, had 3 houses like this)and that could cause the gfci breaker to trip. the only way around that is just install a few gfci receptacles for the 2 wire receptacles.

The old 2 wire(knob and tube) circuits should be fine, so long as no one messes with it. As for installing afci breakers, thats gonna be an issue too!! those shared neutrals are gonna just trip those breakers like nothing!!

In my area so long as you are NOT touching that branch wiring in the bed rooms, they (inspectors) do not make you install afci s. They will let you do the panel and meter and mast and leave it at that. I would just go a step further and install the gfci receptacles but NO gfci breakers.
You can get a deal on a box of 6 gfci's for about $30.00. the more you buy the better deal they give ya.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mdshunk said:
If anything, just run a couple new circuits to the kitchen and bathrooms during your upgrade, and call it good for now.

I agree with Marc, in my own house I still have a few 2 wire receptacles on K&T.
 

russ

Senior Member
Location
Burbank IL
They probably don't have cords with a ground prong in very many places.

Start with the service upgrade at least it's a start.
If the GFCI hold, fine, if not change them to regular breakers, they wont be any worse off than they are now.
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
Well, spoke to her last night. She claims all of the recep's are three prong. Maybe someone just wanted a different color scheme. She couldn't answer whether there was any existing aluminum or not. I still have no clue what I am walking in to. I am going to mount from the weatherhead through to the panel and wait until they can go a couple of hours without juice to have the poco switch over and complete the job. Doubt there is a ground rod. She is on the bank of the river, so I will drive just one, and bond to the H2O.
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
Not as bad a s I thought.

Not as bad a s I thought.

Well, as I said before the upstairs was one apartment, the downstairs another. All of the upstairs is all two-wire. All of the downstairs is all new three and GFCI protected where needed. Some new wiring will have to be done. Found 3-4 receps upstairs with 6-11% VD for 20A load.
One big downfall, looks like the HR for one of the upstairs is AL. Will go back and look for shared neutrals, if there isn't any, (I pray), then AFCI for that and the other two bedrooms.
Here is one of my questions. I know two-wire is supposed to be protected by GFCI's. All of the bedrooms are two-wire, will the combo's cover this, and what are your opinions without running new wire?

Basement wiring, sloppy as h*ll, no biggee. Grounded at the old water supply. Will move to the new clean 1" inlet. Not driving a ground rod, they're are literally 12ft. from the rivers edge.

CH 200A 40C BR panel- $145 w/ 10 20A SP's, 1 30A DP
40' SEU (4-4-4) @ $3.26 a ft.
New meter can - $33
Combo's - ????. Not worried so much about AFCI's if only the HR is AL. Don't rag me, they want the best and they shall get it if I find nothing shared.

Not as bad as I thought.

Opinions?????????????
 

jason

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
They figured at least $300 in labor.


I guess they figured this because you're a friend. This easily sounds like at least a 3000.00 job. (labor)
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
jason said:
They figured at least $300 in labor.


I guess they figured this because you're a friend. This easily sounds like at least a 3000.00 job. (labor)


Here's the good part, she/they, are getting a freebie. They thought around $300 because they know nothing of what is involved in the makeover. I asked about two-wire and GFCI's before I looked at their service, and they felt stupid. They are great people. I don't look to gain $ from dear friends and a favor. What comes around, goes around. I know a "user" from a good friend.
 

j-box

Member
Location
texas
I would figure the total price just as you would any other job, show them the actual cost on a job like hers, then cut the total price in half, that way everyone is happy and she does not feel like she owes you a favor that she may not ever be able to repay, I think that is why the couple offered the $300.00 in the first place.:cool: I did about 2 hours worth of work for a friend, when he asked "How much do I owe you", I asked him to pay me for the materials, around $30.00 and put x amount of money in the church contributions for me, he liked the idea I was happy, he was happy and God was happy.
 
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76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
j-box said:
I would figure the total price just as you would any other job, show them the actual cost on a job like hers, then cut the total price in half, that way everyone is happy and she does not feel like she owes you a favor that she may not ever be able to repay, I think that is why the couple offered the $300.00 in the first place.:cool:


They never offered $300. They think I am charging them, I am not. Don't let the cat out of the bag. They offered to pay whatever I charge. They are close friends, this is what you would call a "karma" job:smile:

My question is not on labor. My question is,.... I have never used these combo's, will the combo's cover two-wire for bedroom service?
 

j-box

Member
Location
texas
76nemo said:
They never offered $300. They think I am charging them, I am not. Don't let the cat out of the bag. They offered to pay whatever I charge. They are close friends, this is what you would call a "karma" job:smile:

My question is not on labor. My question is,.... I have never used these combo's, will the combo's cover two-wire for bedroom service?
Oh!, as my hip 8 year old would say "My bad"
 
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