inspectors

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Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
I've never failed a Commercial\Industrial inspection as a journeyman or foreman. Now when i was an apprentice i have caused my journeyman to fail inspections due to my ignorance of the code. A Master once told me,"Every mistake you make that causes me embarrasment, is a mistake that your helper will make that will cause you embarrasment." This guy would torture me for hours with statements like this. So before every "Special" project,I always do a code overview myself.Then I train my helpers how to preform every task that they are unfamiliar with,torture them for hours with code quizes on the particular task.Then inspect,inspect,and re-inspect! :grin:
 

mpd

Senior Member
iwire

the problem is not in the mirror it is in the field, that is a stupid comment on your part
 
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peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I failed one inspection because I didn't GFCI protect receptacles that were on a kitchen wall (at regular receptacle height and obviously not serving the countertops.) :roll: :mad:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mpd said:
iwire

the problem is not in the mirror it is in the field, that is a stupid comment on your part

Stupid? OK.

I am just thinking that bphgravity is a diligent inspector and has a 21% fail rate, you come along and say yours is 35%.

It certainly could be the problem is all in the ECs. I was just wondering if you considered any other reasons for an almost a 4 out of 10 rejection rate.
 

mpd

Senior Member
iwire

it was not stupid with a question mark, it was a stupid comment, the problem is in the general contractor scheduling for the EC without checking with him first, and EC's having helpers running jobs just to name a few,
 
We average about 65% to 70% approval rate between 7 inspectors doing 14 to 20 inspections daily each. Meeting the inspector on the job site definately improves the passing rate, if no one is there to correct small errors we have no choice but to fail the inspection. Leaving your phone number on site is a good gesture so you can be contacted with problems or concerns. I do on occasions approve the job, then call the EC on minor items if I am familiar with him and his employees. I do request the contractor or foreman call me when the corrections are made. I sometimes do spot checks to make sure the contractor kept his word. Inspectors are not there to cost contractors money, push their authority or show off NEC knowledge (some anyway). We are just doing an unpopular job that is sometimes crucial for safe electrical insallations.
 

Poolside

Member
When I work in one area with the same handful of inspectors I don't have many failed inspections. However, being that SoCal is made up of dozens of local authorities, it is truly amazing how different the inspectors are from one to another. What passes in one city or county doesn't work in the next one. Frequently I run into inspectors here that are "combo" inspectors meaning that they do electrical, mechanical, and plumbing inspections, their trade background was roofing or something similiar, and today they are a electrical inspectors.

And I agree with the previous posters that if I am present during an inspection, I will just about never fail. (Unless it's in Los Angeles city and then all bets are off.)


- Greg
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
I have failed two inspections in the last 20 years that I can easily remember since I dissagree with both failures. One was because I flipped a panel around from a location(clothes closet) that would of been in fact a real code violation since I was going to upgrade it, to the laundry room where it was 4' directly across the room from the laundry tray. The inspector on that one called out "located within 5' from a water source". My other failed inspection was once when connecting a gec from an outside mounted service disconnect to an outside the building copper water pipe that was directly in contact with the soil for 40 feet, in a location on the opposite side of the house from where the street service h20 pipe came in. That time he cited 250.52 as his reference.
 

nyerinfl

Senior Member
Location
Broward Co.
macmikeman said:
I have failed two inspections in the last 20 years that I can easily remember since I dissagree with both failures. One was because I flipped a panel around from a location(clothes closet) that would of been in fact a real code violation since I was going to upgrade it, to the laundry room where it was 4' directly across the room from the laundry tray. The inspector on that one called out "located within 5' from a water source".

I'm just curious what you did to fix this?
 

mpd

Senior Member
from what I am reading most of the inspectors must be between 95 to 100 percent pass rate, IMO any inspector with that pass rate is not doing there job
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
mpd said:
from what I am reading most of the inspectors must be between 95 to 100 percent pass rate, IMO any inspector with that pass rate is not doing there job

Sounds more to me to like it may be an indicater of the training (or lack of) in your area.

Or maybe you're just nitpicking good installations. :wink:

If a cop follows the best driver long enough he'll see them do something he could stop them for even if it's just a far stretch of the law.

Roger
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
I think a lot of it might have to do with local custom. In some areas, someone with the EC is required to be present for inspections. Multiply that by mandatory continuing education and so on, and the pass rate seems more likely to improve, IMO.

In other areas with lax continuing education, licensing requirements, and nobody on hand to discuss installations would result in a higher fail rate.

I don't see how there can be an ideal pass/fail rate, as there's too many variables in the equation. I know from my own experience, being on hand to walk with the inspector resulted in higher pass rates, for discussing the installation.

I frown on walking with the inspector for the purposes of distraction, but I know that goes on too. I recall not too long back, I was tidying up a rough-in on a room and didn't have a knockout closure for the bottom of a box that stuck out to me like a sore thumb. The inspector was pretty distracted, talking about something unrelated to anything with the GC, so that and an unsupported existing pipe went unnoticed.

I strive to stay on task, even when safety/AHJ inspectors are on site. I appreciate it when they do the same, nobody's perfect and both the work and the inspection have money invested in them.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mpd said:
from what I am reading most of the inspectors must be between 95 to 100 percent pass rate, IMO any inspector with that pass rate is not doing there job

That is a good point, but I think the results here at this NEC forum are severely skewed. :cool:

I think the ECs that frequent this site are the ones that would most likely pass inspections as they are truly interested in their trade just like the inspectors that hang out here. :cool:
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
roger said:
If a cop follows the best driver long enough he'll see them do something he could stop them for even if it's just a far stretch of the law.
I was pulled over the other night, because I suspiciously turned onto a side street and into a parking lot when a cop was following me. I had realized I needed to get gas too late when leaving town, and I'm sure the cop was wondering what I was up to, or if I didn't want him behind me.

I ended up with a written warning for not using my turn signal, at an intersection where he couldn't have seen my turn signal from his angle anyway. :roll::)
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
georgestolz said:
I was pulled over the other night, because I suspiciously turned onto a side street and into a parking lot when a cop was following me. I had realized I needed to get gas too late when leaving town, and I'm sure the cop was wondering what I was up to, or if I didn't want him behind me.

I ended up with a written warning for not using my turn signal, at an intersection where he couldn't have seen my turn signal from his angle anyway. :roll::)

I rest my case. :)

Roger
 

mpd

Senior Member
roger

there is no lack of training in this area, and I don't have time to nitpick that just adds to my workload,

iwire

i agree 100 percent with you, my pass rate just went up
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I agree those of that visit here every day are trying to be code compliant.Something is real wrong if an inspector fails more than 10 %.Either inspector has too few inspections,or the workers are poorly trained.I have asked my helpers to inspect as they go.No way i can inspect everything they do and neither can the inspector.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
COTInspector said:
We average about 65% to 70% approval rate between 7 inspectors doing 14 to 20 inspections daily each. Meeting the inspector on the job site definately improves the passing rate, if no one is there to correct small errors we have no choice but to fail the inspection. Leaving your phone number on site is a good gesture so you can be contacted with problems or concerns. I do on occasions approve the job, then call the EC on minor items if I am familiar with him and his employees. I do request the contractor or foreman call me when the corrections are made. I sometimes do spot checks to make sure the contractor kept his word. Inspectors are not there to cost contractors money, push their authority or show off NEC knowledge (some anyway). We are just doing an unpopular job that is sometimes crucial for safe electrical insallations.

Being we are both working Tampa,what do you belive the real reason is for that high of failure ? Is it the low paid untrained help ? If my rate was even close to that number my boss would be chewing me out and i would not be running any more jobs.He does place blame on the crew leader as we are to be over seeing everything.When i cant be there to meet you or any other inspector we atleast try to have the GC be there.
 

jrannis

Senior Member
Karl H said:
I've never failed a Commercial\Industrial inspection as a journeyman or foreman. Now when i was an apprentice i have caused my journeyman to fail inspections due to my ignorance of the code. A Master once told me,"Every mistake you make that causes me embarrasment, is a mistake that your helper will make that will cause you embarrasment." This guy would torture me for hours with statements like this. So before every "Special" project,I always do a code overview myself.Then I train my helpers how to preform every task that they are unfamiliar with,torture them for hours with code quizes on the particular task.Then inspect,inspect,and re-inspect! :grin:

I agree its hard to get failed on a commercial\ Industrial project if you follow the prints and properly support your conduit.
 
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