Moving old residential subpanel

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I've recently been hired by a landlord to upgrade and move a subpanel in a rental property that is located in a closet. In the past I've removed the panel set a NEMA box and spliced the individual circuits. I am thinking to reduce clutter I would land all the grounds on a ground bar and all the neutrals on an insulated terminal block. Basically what would happen anyway when they end up in the new subpanel. I can't think of any code issues to preclude doing this but want to draw on the groups experience if anyone knows of code issues or problems I'm not forseeing. The subfeed itself would be spliced independently.
 

Dennis Alwon

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You cannot splice all the neutrals together from different circuits. You are creating a parallel feed and can cause many issues. 310.4 and 300.3 (B)
 

Little Bill

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I've recently been hired by a landlord to upgrade and move a subpanel in a rental property that is located in a closet. In the past I've removed the panel set a NEMA box and spliced the individual circuits. I am thinking to reduce clutter I would land all the grounds on a ground bar and all the neutrals on an insulated terminal block. Basically what would happen anyway when they end up in the new subpanel. I can't think of any code issues to preclude doing this but want to draw on the groups experience if anyone knows of code issues or problems I'm not forseeing. The subfeed itself would be spliced independently.

You cannot splice all the neutrals together from different circuits. You are creating a parallel feed and can cause many issues. 310.4 and 300.3 (B)

Dennis, I may be reading into this wrong but what I think he means is using the terminal block instead of wire nuts to make his splice for the neutrals. I'm not sure what he meant by "the subfeed itself would be spliced independently."

"Moderated Member":? That a new name for "Junior Member?
 
You cannot splice all the neutrals together from different circuits. You are creating a parallel feed and can cause many issues. 310.4 and 300.3 (B)
Thanks for the reply. Can you be specific as to what issues might arise? I notice you didn't mention any objections to the grounds being brought to a ground bar in the junction box, any thoughts on that? Thanks, Bob
 

Dennis Alwon

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I am thinking you are bringing all the branch circuits from a panel into the existing panel. Then you are connecting all the branch circuit feeds for each circuit and splicing all the white (Neutrals) on a terminal block. The grounds the same as the neutrals

The egc are fine on the terminal block as current is only traveling thru them in a fault situation.

The neutrals however would all be connected and current from each phase will travel over each neutral. When you connect the neutrals at both ends you have created a parallel connection which is non compliant in the NEC in 310.4(A).

The nEC also requires that all conductors of the same circuit be run in the same raceway or cable.

Now look at 210.(B)-- you have created a large MWBC. Before the 2011 code a larger neutral was used to carry the current back for all the circuits but that has now been made non compliant esp. since it would create a large MWBC with all the hot conductors.

If the neutrals aren't all running together in nm cables or in a raceway then you will also create an unwanted electro magnetic field (emf).

Will you burn the house down- NO but someone could get hurt working the new panel if they lift the neutral thinking the circuit is off--- current will travel back on all the neutrals.
 

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Maybe the OP is not doing what I thought he was. I was thinking a terminal block like in control wiring, not neutral bar. Each connection point is isolated from the one next to it. You only use the terminal block to connect individual wires to one side of the block and connect another wire opposite that terminal to continue your circuit. No different than connecting 2 wires any other way, ie: wire nuts.
 
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