Buying Equipment for Pulling Wire

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Electron_Sam78

Senior Member
Location
Palm Bay, FL
Would you guys list the things I'd need for getting set up to pull long runs of big wire? For example, 150 ft of 3 each 250 kcmil copper + EGC and 525 ft of 3 each #3/0 copper +EGC. Our shop has never done a lot of long distance conduit runs, mostly direct burial circuits but I want to get into doing it sometimes when it would be more practical. However we have no equipment for it and I haven't really had the experience with larger wire and long runs.

Pull rope size(s)?
Pulling machinery?

Cost is a bit of a concern.
 

Strife

Senior Member
I wouldn't exactly call 150 feet of #250 a long run.
As far as rope, a 3/4" will do just fine. As far as equipment for that particular run 4-5 people should be able to do it also. Especially nowadays with the lube free wire southwire has, you add some lube and 150 feet is pretty doable with a few workers.
On the 525' of 3/0, 3/4" rope still should do the trick (especially the new nylon ropes, but even twine should be good). As far as equipment I only know the greenlee tugger. I know there are several other options (I've seen the POCO PUSH their wires 1000+ feet), but I doubt you are at that point.

Would you guys list the things I'd need for getting set up to pull long runs of big wire? For example, 150 ft of 3 each 250 kcmil copper + EGC and 525 ft of 3 each #3/0 copper +EGC. Our shop has never done a lot of long distance conduit runs, mostly direct burial circuits but I want to get into doing it sometimes when it would be more practical. However we have no equipment for it and I haven't really had the experience with larger wire and long runs.

Pull rope size(s)?
Pulling machinery?

Cost is a bit of a concern.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Greenlee tugger, large Greenlee pulley, conduit clamp on attachment(lets you pull out of the conduit the tugger is clamped on to) and 3/4" nonstretch rope are a good start.

We picked up our tugger and big pipe threader among other things at auctions. Just something to look out for...

Also, I think it goes without saying, on the bigger pulls always use rigid 90's. We don't even worry about the extra cost. You screwup and burn through one pvc 90 and by the time you fix it, you probably could of bought A LOT of rigid 90's. Especially if it's under a slab.

(I've seen the POCO PUSH their wires 1000+ feet), but I doubt you are at that point.

Jeez. Makes me seem like a weenie when I sometimes can't get 12's around a few 90's...:D
 

George Stolz

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Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Service Manager
Would you guys list the things I'd need for getting set up to pull long runs of big wire?

I'm a big fan of the Maxis tuggers myself. I've never purchased rope myself, so I couldn't relate exactly what works best - basically, a rope about 1.5 times your thumb or a bit bigger can handle most pulls. I usually make a sock out of tie wire for most pulls, we never seem to have the right fingers or sock on hand, so a good tie-wire sock usually holds up well for the cost.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I'm a big fan of the Maxis tuggers myself. I've never purchased rope myself, so I couldn't relate exactly what works best - basically, a rope about 1.5 times your thumb or a bit bigger can handle most pulls. I usually make a sock out of tie wire for most pulls, we never seem to have the right fingers or sock on hand, so a good tie-wire sock usually holds up well for the cost.

Want to be talked about, thought of with great passion, in the minds of all who work with you...just let your home made sock be the one to give out 2' from the end of a difficult pull. Only one that ever failed me but that is the one I remember.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Would you guys list the things I'd need for getting set up to pull long runs of big wire? For example, 150 ft of 3 each 250 kcmil copper + EGC and 525 ft of 3 each #3/0 copper +EGC. Our shop has never done a lot of long distance conduit runs, mostly direct burial circuits but I want to get into doing it sometimes when it would be more practical. However we have no equipment for it and I haven't really had the experience with larger wire and long runs.

Pull rope size(s)?
Pulling machinery?

Cost is a bit of a concern.

cost is always a bit of concern. check out auctions. you can buy whole gangboxes full of somewhat beat up tugging stuff somewhat cheap.

that said, i'm fond of maxis. there customer service is second to none. there stuff is good too...
they do rope, etc...... probably a 12,000 # 300 footer will do.. if you need 500' pulls, there will be money to get rope.

now, for socks and grips, i've got some, but truth be told, i've never lost a pull, and i've done an awful lot of tie wire socks.
i was pulling a long pull in a refinery, and had one greenlee tugger, and a second greenlee tugger with a single turn on it, ahead
of it as a boost, and broke BOTH tuggers... one broke a chain, and the other one exploded the chain cover with the shock load,
and it didn't break the rope or the homemade basket.

i only use simpull wire by southwire.

if you are new to pulling, i recommend this... i have one, and won't pull without it any more.... Maxis Triggers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAigw3xDWM4

they are $1,500 bucks.

i've never seen them for rent, or for sale used. i'd never sell mine.

three months after i bought them, one of them went kerflooey. i'd only used them twice.
i needed to pull in the morning, and discovered this when i pulled them out to charge them.
i called maxis, and explained, and they checked where someone near me had some in stock...
sent me over there to swap them out for brand new set.

this took an hour to set up. i was pulling wire the next morning, as planned.

these guys are awesome.

note... i was just looking on their website, and they sell grips... looks to be pretty
nice stuff, but a bit pricy... $3,000 for the set. if you have a LOT of pulling, it's a
good thing.... you can save 20 minutes a pull, and if you have a crew pulling, that
adds up, but it's a nice to have for me at this point.
 
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GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
On the 525' of 3/0, 3/4" rope still should do the trick (especially the new nylon ropes, but even twine should be good).
To even mention nylon and pulling is scary ... NO. Nylon is wonderful, resistant to lots of things, absorbs shock, and STRETCHES. If you DO overload it to the point it parts, there is LOTS of stored energy. Polyester (Dacron is DuPont's tradename and commonly used generically), polypropylene, or (perhaps what you are calling new nylon?) UHMW polyethylene (Spectra and Dyneema are 2 tradenames) are good choices.

Please don't pull or hoist with Nylon. Your (and others) health depends on it.
 
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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I recall reading in one of the Greenlee manuals for their 6000 pound tugger that if you are are using a standard nylon rope, the rope can store enough energy to launch a standard car about 14 stories. If you use thier pulling rope the energy storage is only enough to launch that same car about 2 stories.
 
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ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
I usually make a sock out of tie wire for most pulls, we never seem to have the right fingers or sock on hand, so a good tie-wire sock usually holds up well for the cost.
Why make a sock? Strip off some insulation, cut some strands, fold the wire into the rope eye, and wrap it with some tape. No worries, pull is done successfully every time.

Break down the tugger, crack a cold one and start making up the connections.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I have seen wire pulled easily with a truck or forklift, but gas it gently. This only works where the pull lines up for it too.

I think the Greenlee tugger is the most versatile puller I have seen. It is the only one I have worked with much. It can be floor mounted with wedge anchors, chained to conduits at various angles or chained to a beam. If one is floor mounted, the wedge anchors should be drilled deep enough to bury the anchor later & patch over it. A come along hand winch can be good in some cases, to pull a few extra feet of wire. Too slow to do a whole pull.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
... It can be floor mounted with wedge anchors, chained to conduits at various angles or chained to a beam. ...
Something that many do not know about using the tugger chain mounting. You should only pull parallel to the mounting. You should not pull perpendicular to the mounting. In other words the pulling force should try to slide the tugger along the support, it should not be trying to pull the tugger directly away from the support.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Something that many do not know about using the tugger chain mounting. You should only pull parallel to the mounting. You should not pull perpendicular to the mounting. In other words the pulling force should try to slide the tugger along the support, it should not be trying to pull the tugger directly away from the support.

yeah, what he said.

something also crucial is putting something to keep the tugger from moving on what you clamp it to.....

a common attachment i've seen used, and used myself, is the fork of a forklift, like a 3 ton champ...
at the back of the fork, where it's not tapered. clamp it down really tight, and away you go....

i was pulling in a switch rack, out of a substructure and was using a forklift for an anchor. big forklift,
6' long forks. the thick parallel portion of the fork was 2' long. the pull wasn't going well... turned out
the moron in the vault on the other end used ONE handful of soap for a 600' run thru 3 vaults.

the rope was under enough strain that it was square. brand new greenlee rope. i was standing behind
a steel door into a building, in case it broke. i'd never seen a pulling rope under that kind of load,
including when i was using two tuggers in tandem. the only thing that was exposed was my hand,
wearing a glove.

that's when the tugger came off the fork. sailed thru the air about 20' landing in the dirt.

i'd had them creep under load, moving a couple inches.... it was predictable and gradual.
this wasn't like that. like it was shot from a cannon. it was a greenlee super tugger, and
you know they are pretty heavy. it would have destroyed anything in it's way. thank god
nothing was in it's way.

be very, very careful when pulling heavy cable. things can go wrong, really fast.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Would you guys list the things I'd need for getting set up to pull long runs of big wire? For example, 150 ft of 3 each 250 kcmil copper + EGC and 525 ft of 3 each #3/0 copper +EGC. Our shop has never done a lot of long distance conduit runs, mostly direct burial circuits but I want to get into doing it sometimes when it would be more practical. However we have no equipment for it and I haven't really had the experience with larger wire and long runs.

Pull rope size(s)?
Pulling machinery?

Cost is a bit of a concern.

something to consider also is the wire you purchase.
i cannot say enough good stuff about southwire simpull.

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr66/FulThrotl/a0c4e826.jpg

that's my little puller... used it yesterday morning for a pull...

1" conduit, 185' long. emt. had two condulets in the run,
total amount of bends was 10 90's, and a kick.

wire was three #4 and one #6 ground, THHN simpull.
used a 1,200# mule tape. set the wire up carefully,
nobody feeding. one observer whose job was to take
his foot off the trigger remote if anything went wrong.

pulled it on low speed... strain gauge showed 250# pull
thru the first three 90's, then zero poundage for the rest
of the pull. no soap, no load on the strain gauge, 10.5 ninety's.
straight thru everything.....

did i ever mention how much i like simpull?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I see comments about using tuggers in tandem, and have seen it done, but are any tuggers made for that purpose? If you take 6 wraps around the capstan of a Greenly 640, every 10 pounds of force on the tail rope will give you 1127 pounds of force on the pulling end of the rope. That tugger is rated for 4,000 pounds of force, so you would only need to pull on the tail rope with less than 30 pounds of force to max out the tugger.
The use of a second tugger would seem to be a huge overload for the first tugger.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
I see comments about using tuggers in tandem, and have seen it done, but are any tuggers made for that purpose? If you take 6 wraps around the capstan of a Greenly 640, every 10 pounds of force on the tail rope will give you 1127 pounds of force on the pulling end of the rope. That tugger is rated for 4,000 pounds of force, so you would only need to pull on the tail rope with less than 30 pounds of force to max out the tugger.
The use of a second tugger would seem to be a huge overload for the first tugger.

to my knowledge, they are not designed for that.

and obviously the first tugger would get the lions share of the load. so i only put ONE turn around the first tugger, and all the wraps on the second one... so there isn't an such an overload.

the only time i've ever had a problem was one pull, where we were directed by texaco's onsite engineer to place cable tray cable into a conduit at the end of an outside cable tray. the cable
was UV rated, and the insulation had the "stickiness" of SO cord... it went several hundred feet up the pipe, then it got to the sweep at about 30' from the end of the run, and dropped anchor.

broke the chain on the first greenlee, got two more, put them in tandem as described above, exploded them, cut the pipe behind the ninety, put kellums on the back end, and pulled it out,
figure 8'd the cable on some plywood, and asked the engineer for specific direction.

the next day the coker blew right next to where we were pulling the wire at in the plant (texaco refinery, wilmington caif. november 1984) the only reason i'm typing this right now, is it was
raining all day, and we picked up half an hour early. so having wet socks saved my life. where we were working was less than 100' from the pump that exploded. the fireball destroyed everything.

burnt the whole area to the ground. burned four days. right before thanksgiving. i never went back, so i'm guessing the rebuild crew on
the coker dealt with it the next year during the rebuild.

i tend to avoid refineries these days.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
to my knowledge, they are not designed for that.

and obviously the first tugger would get the lions share of the load. so i only put ONE turn around the first tugger, and all the wraps on the second one... so there isn't an such an overload. ...
Even with one wrap, the Greenlee manual says that 10 pounds of force on the tail rope provides 21 pounds of force on the pulling rope.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Even with one wrap, the Greenlee manual says that 10 pounds of force on the tail rope provides 21 pounds of force on the pulling rope.

so, if it's a 6,000 pound tugger, that means that the thing will provide 12,600 lbs with one turn on the front capstan, and a 6,000 lb pull on the back end, but lets not forget there
is a 6,000# back end on that, so the front tugger is carrying 6,600# and the back tugger is carrying 6,000#.

i didn't think it was that close to balanced.... but i didn't want to kill the front tugger, and one turn is the least you can put on it, so i took a swag and did it that way.


edit: hmm.... if you had three tuggers..... ;-)
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Something that many do not know about using the tugger chain mounting. You should only pull parallel to the mounting. You should not pull perpendicular to the mounting. In other words the pulling force should try to slide the tugger along the support, it should not be trying to pull the tugger directly away from the support.

That I didn't know. Glad to see your post. I've mostly seen them in parallel, but also perpendicular. Never seen a problem. Then again, even our dumbest helpers knew to soap the wire well. We would often presoap the conduit for a longer pull. We were also careful of our 90's & tried to always plan ahead for pulling angles. I remember a 1 or 2 broken ropes from years back & conduit slipping the strut straps at the last 90, close to pull point. Our perp pulls were usually when we wedge anchored tugger to floor, straight under a pull point. Would usually do that near the panel & pull several runs from same anchor point.

Small detail, but I also found Aqua Gel much better than Yellow 77. 77 was an old favorite, but was harder to clean up later. AG cleaned up better & didn't past up when it dried. 77 pasted up & made it much harder to ever pull wires out conduit for any renovations.

We sometimes had each guy on spools lubing up his wire as it came off, just a thin layer as he played it out. Feeder would lube as it went in, for good measure. With each wire lubed all around, that accounted for any twisting or turning in the conduit, around bends, etc.

If pulling big wire in a cold environment, try to find somewhere warm to store it overnight before. A boiler room is good. Cold wire is much stiffer, makes pulling a nightmare in every possible way. If it has to be stored in a cold outside trailer, put some kind of heater in there the night before.
 
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