210.52 (f)

[sparky_magoo]

I have an argumetative apprentice. He wanted to feed the laundry Ckt. off of a bed rm. ckt. I said it was illegegal. I whipped out my code book. 210.52 (F), said it was legal. Am I reading the code wrong? I have always run a dedicated ckt. to the laundry.

The same apprentice said we could run the dishwasher and disposal off the SABC ckt. I couldn't find a violation in 210 or 422. He even said it was cool to power the hood off of the SABC.

Am I wrong, or do I not know how to use my code book? I am an old man. Is it possible I am cofussing code with common sense?

[480sparky]

210.52(F) only says you must have a receptacle installed for the laundry. It doesn't mention anything about the circuit. But you may want to show him/her 210.11(C)(2). It backs you up 100%.

As for the dishwasher and disposal, proudly announce 210.52(B)(1) and (2). (1) says the SABC shall serve all wall and floor outlets, countertop outlets and the fridge. The dish/disp are none of these, and would be excluded by (2).

Be sure to bet lunch on it first.

[sparky_magoo]

Thanks a million 480Sparky. I thought I was corrcect, but did'nt have time to deal with an argumentative apprentice. I looked in my code book, but couldn't find it. thanks again.

I'm new to the company. I am the certified journeyman. He is the apprentice. He likes to argue with me. We don't have time for me to spend time in my code book.

I think I know how to rope a house. I will humble him tomorrow.

[480sparky]

Hey, don't knock it. Sometimes questions like these really get the ole' brain juices flowing and force you to look things up. I thought the same thing you did, but it took me a while to actually look it up... one of those "Dammit, I know it's in here, I just can't find it!" moments.

[infinity]

Print this out and show it to him:

210.11(C) Dwelling Units.
(1) Small-Appliance Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by 210.52(B).
(2) Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(F). This circuit shall have no other outlets.

210.52(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.
Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.
Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical supply to and support of an electric clock in any of the rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).
Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.

[Jim W in Tampa]

Originally Posted by sparky_magoo

I have an argumetative apprentice. He wanted to feed the laundry Ckt. off of a bed rm. ckt. I said it was illegegal. I whipped out my code book. 210.52 (F), said it was legal. Am I reading the code wrong? I have always run a dedicated ckt. to the laundry.

The same apprentice said we could run the dishwasher and disposal off the SABC ckt. I couldn't find a violation in 210 or 422. He even said it was cool to power the hood off of the SABC.

Am I wrong, or do I not know how to use my code book? I am an old man. Is it possible I am cofussing code with common sense?

I would not put up with him arguing with me for more than 1 day.Here i can simply send him back to the office and tell them why

[haskindm]

Do your apprentice a favor. Instead of arguing with him and spending your time looking up answers to prove him wrong, admit that you had never thought of it that way and ask him to show you in the NEC where he is right. The time he spends looking things up in the NEC will do him a world of good as he progresses in his career. He will learn alot, and occasionally he my teach you something. After he spends time finding the answers, he is much more likely to remember the lesson than if you just tell him.

[sparky_magoo]

Originally Posted by haskindm

Do your apprentice a favor. Instead of arguing with him and spending your time looking up answers to prove him wrong, admit that you had never thought of it that way and ask him to show you in the NEC where he is right. The time he spends looking things up in the NEC will do him a world of good as he progresses in his career. He will learn alot, and occasionally he my teach you something. After he spends time finding the answers, he is much more likely to remember the lesson than if you just tell him.

I can't get him to actually use a code book. It's a shame. His questions are good. It makes me look things up. It helps to seperate tradition from code requirements.

[480sparky]

He's just being lazy and wants you to look it up instead of himself. Tell him he can do it his way if he can show you in the codebook that it can be done that way.

[charlie b]

Originally Posted by 480sparky

He's just being lazy and wants you to look it up instead of himself. Tell him he can do it his way if he can show you in the codebook that it can be done that way.

My sentiments exactly. While you are at it, ask him to look up the word "apprentice" in the dictionary. The one on my desk defines the word as "A person who works for another in order to learn a trade." If he is unwilling to accept the possibility that you have something to teach, then the relationship will never work.

To be sure, apprentices can teach masters, just as engineering students can teach licensed professional engineers. But that is a small part (albeit an important part) of the relationship.