X-ray room

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roger

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I see it as a Patient Care Area.

Patient Care Area. Any portion of a health care facility wherein patients are intended to be examined or treated. Areas of a health care facility in which patient care is administered are classified as general care areas or critical care areas. The governing body of the facility designates these areas in accordance with the type of patient care anticipated and with the following definitions of the area classification.

Roger
 

lmchenry

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That is my take on it also. However the contractor is not in agreement. He has already wired the room with MC (not HGMC).
 

pete m.

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That is my take on it also. However the contractor is not in agreement. He has already wired the room with MC (not HGMC).

Most importantly, how does the AHJ view it (perhaps you are... if so the question has been answered)?

Pete
 

charlie b

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I disagree. Taking a photograph does not constitute an examination. The patient is not examined until the photo is developed, and given to the doctor. To that I will add that there is nothing that takes places in an Xray room, and no equipment in that room, that would require any of the special wiring methods or precautions that are relevant to a patient care area.

When the nurse escorts me to the exam room (i.e., before the doctor comes to examine me), I am asked to step on a scale that is kept in the corridor. Does that make the corridor a patient care area? Measurement and examination are not the same thing.
 

iwire

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It goes without saying I would call it an exam room.


Moving on


To that I will add that there is nothing that takes places in an Xray room, and no equipment in that room, that would require any of the special wiring methods or precautions that are relevant to a patient care area.

I strongly disagree with that, at times you will find much of the same electrical equipment in the X-Ray room with the patient as you would in any other patient care area.

The patient will be laying on what is often a grounded conductive 'bed' or at the least be surrounded by grounded metal equipment. It is imperative that all of this stays at the same potential which I believe is the purpose of the redundant grounding requirements.
 

charlie b

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. . . at times you will find much of the same electrical equipment in the X-Ray room with the patient as you would in any other patient care area.
In that instance, I would agree that that room is a PCA. But the Xrays that I have had taken in recent years were done in a room that had nothing but the camera equipment and a shielded area for the operator to stand in while taking the image. That would not be a PCA, in my view.

So perhaps the question is not clear. Perhaps the phrase "Xray Room" has more than one meaning. Perhaps before asking the AHJ to make a decision, it would be worth finding out what equipment is in that room.
 

steve66

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I believe the xray equipment itself would qualify as an "ordinary appliance" which would qualify the room as patient care.


Also, appliances like telephones and televisions can be added at any time. They won't necessarly be in the room when the inspection occurs.
 

charlie b

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I believe the xray equipment itself would qualify as an "ordinary appliance" which would qualify the room as patient care.
The presence of "ordinary appliances" is not what makes a room a patient care area. Otherwise, the digital reading weight scale in the corridor would make the corridor a PCA, and the telephone in the waiting room would make the waiting room a PCA. First, the room must be declared a PCA. Then you decide whether the equipment in the room is "ordinary" or "invasive." That is what makes the difference between a PCA that is "general care" and a PCA that is "critical care."

The deciding factor is whether a patient will be examined or treated in the room. I submit that an "examination" is a process in which one living human evaluates the condition of another, through the use of visual, audible, or tactile clues. Taking a photograph does not do such things. What we have here is one person taking the photo, and a different person using it, along with a stethoscope and some hands-on observations, to evaluate the condition of the patient.

So back to the question of whether an Xray room is a PCA. The question really boils down to whether we are talking about a room in which there is an Xray machine, and nothing else, or whether we are talking about a room that has a long list of medical equipment, of which the Xray machine is but one item on the list. Just looking at a plan that declares a space to be an "Xray Room" does not give you the answer. You also need the "room data sheet," in order to know what activities will take place within the room.
 
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steve66

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The deciding factor is whether a patient will be examined or treated in the room.

I don't agree with you on that point Charlie. The definition of "General Care Area" says:

"Patient bedrooms, examining rooms, treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come into contact with ordinary appliances such as a nurse call system, electric beds, examining lamps, telephones, and entertainment devices."

In an xray room the patient normally lies on a motorized table while that person is positioned by a nurse or radiologist. IMO, that makes it a patient care area.



I submit that an "examination" is a process in which one living human evaluates the condition of another, through the use of visual, audible, or tactile clues. Taking a photograph does not do such things. What we have here is one person taking the photo, and a different person using it, along with a stethoscope and some hands-on observations, to evaluate the condition of the patient.

I think you really have to be splitting hairs to claim that taking an xray isn't examination or treatment of a patient, and I don't think you will find many other people that share your view. I really think the intent of the verbage was to include areas like this in patient care. It would seem like someone would be much more likely to get shocked by an xray machine than in a standard exam room.
 

handy10

Senior Member
Xrays are used for treatment as well as for diagnosis. I think treatment and diagnosis are done with different equipment, but the code seems clear that a treatment
room gets special classification. I think both types of rooms should.
 

lmchenry

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To help matters, this particular situation has a table that has electrical components. So I have drawn the conclusion that it must have a redundant ground.
 

charlie b

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I don't agree with you on that point Charlie. The definition of "General Care Area" says:
Steve, you are not allowed to read the definition of ?General Care Area? until you first get past the first line of the definition of ?Patient Care Area.? If you are not in a PCA, then you have no reason to discuss GCA.

In an xray room the patient normally lies on a motorized table while that person is positioned by a nurse or radiologist. IMO, that makes it a patient care area.
If that is the type of room under discussion, I would agree with you. But we don?t know that from the simple phrase ?Xray Room.? As I said earlier, show me the Room Data Sheet, so that I would know what is in that room, and then I would determine whether that room constitutes a PCA. Also, as I said earlier, the last time I had an Xray taken, I was standing on the floor, a film plate was placed behind me, and the Xray source was swung into place in front of me. There was nothing else in that room, and I would not call that room a PCA. When I first read the question, that is what I envisioned, having nothing else to go by.

I think you really have to be splitting hairs to claim that taking an xray isn't examination or treatment of a patient. . . .
Not at all. I equate it to going to a portrait studio. When the doctor brings in the developed film and tells you he sees an anomaly in your lungs, and then listens to your breathing with a stethoscope, then you are being examined.

. . . .and I don't think you will find many other people that share your view.
I never let that bother me.

 

charlie b

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To help matters, this particular situation has a table that has electrical components. So I have drawn the conclusion that it must have a redundant ground.
That does help matters, in that it clarifies the function of the room, and it shows that there is more than just an Xray source involved.
 

steve66

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Illinois
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Engineer
Steve, you are not allowed to read the definition of ?General Care Area? until you first get past the first line of the definition of ?Patient Care Area.? If you are not in a PCA, then you have no reason to discuss GCA.


I read the definitions in more liberal way. IMO, the definition of PCA gives some examples of rooms that would be considered PCA's. There isn't anything in that paragraph that says "PCA's are strictly limited to areas intended for examinaitions or treatments." Instead, its just saying that areas where examinations or treatments occur are examples of PCA's.

Then, the definition of "General Care Areas" list some more examples of areas that would be PCA's. Those include "patietnt bedrooms, treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas..."


I never let that bother me.

I know you don't. :) And it shouldn't bother you - we all realize that the majority can be wrong.
 

david

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Pennsylvania
I did not find anything specific to a free standing x-ray machine but The health care facilities handbook 2005 addition Richard P . Bielen used two examples of patient care vicinity one a patient bed location and the 6 ft horizontal around the bed location.

The second example he used was a free standing mammography machine and he pointed out that the machine and the six ft horizontal area around the machine is to be considered the patient care vicinity.

If you would be willing to give his viewpoint consideration. I do not see any difference between that piece of testing equipment and a free standing x-ray machine.
 
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